Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty_Webb
Fourputt
Another question for you if you will. What if you do the same thing - hit original and provisional towards the out of bounds. You get up there and find two balls out of bounds and one in bounds. The two out of bounds are your original and provisional balls. The one in bounds is completely different. It's obviously not yours. Can you play that one? Or do you have to go back to the tee? What's the difference between this scenario and the one I described earlier? From a rules perspective.
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This time the ball in bounds is clearly identifiable as not being one of the two you played. Once again, when you change the scenario, you change the outcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty_Webb
Another question. suppose you stand on a tee. There is out of bounds left and right. You hit your first tee shot towards the out of bounds on the left. Hit a provisional towards the out of bounds on the right. Hit another provisional down the middle. You go to your first ball and find it out of bounds. You go to the second ball and find two balls there which are indistinguishable. One is in bounds and one is out of bounds. Can you play the one in bounds as if it were your provisional? If so, why? If not, why not? If not, how does this differ from my earlier situation?
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I would say yes, because equity applies. Although not exactly the same, the cases are similar enough to make the same ruling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty_Webb
Finally, if you hit your ball somewhere and when you get there, you find your ball and another one near each other. They are indistinguishable from each other. Do you agree that that ball is lost? If so, why do you think that the situation described earlier is more like decision 27/11 than like this particular situation?
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Because under the rules, the situation changes if you haven't played a provisional ball. In any of these cases you
must assess the stroke and distance penalty for a lost ball. That is clear under Rule 12-2 and 27-1. Decision 27/11 just extends that procedure if a provisional ball has also been played. The provisional ball is only abandoned if the original ball is found in bounds and identified. When the original ball can't be identified, the provisional ball becomes the ball in play. In the interest of expediency, it is deemed that one of the balls lying through the green is your provisional.
I can't explain it any better. If you still can't understand the reasoning, then you'll have to bug someone else. It makes perfect sense to me to extend the logic to any number of balls. What doesn't make sense is to continue debating it when you can't seem to see or accept that logic.
BTW, I think I made an error in my earlier scenario when I said that the last provisional ball played in the fairway would be abandoned. After further deliberation, I think that it would become the ball in play, once again because of the same logic. Since you can't identify any of the other four balls as to the order in which they were played, or even which ones were yours, then the one ball which
was clearly identifiable because of it's location in the fairway, must by default be the one played for the remainder of the hole. As it was the fourth ball played, you would be lying 7, playing 8.