Comparing steel shafts for irons...

[Bulls9999]

Just curious, my previous Titleist 822 irons had ultralight Nippon NS Pro 960 stiff shafts (101 gms). When I was inquiring at our local golf shop, I indicated that I wanted a shaft flex no more stiff than what I was currently using.

In looking to order my recent Callaway X-20 Tour's, I looked up the specs for their Precision-X rifle flighted shafts. I mentioned to my local golf shop pro that I had tried the 6.0 flex several times and I thought they felt stiff, and was thinking of a softer flex. I mentioned that I was thinking of 5.5 flex, but after looking up the specs, I noticed the 5.5 flex's were 120 gms, that's 20% more steel and I presumed = stiffer than the ones I was used to (my Titleist's were 101 gms). But he talked me out of going 5.0 and "I should get the 5.5's". Now that I got them, I'm sensing they're a little stiff...argghhh...I mean, I can hit nice shots...actually dial in on my target line (I suppose the benefit of stiffer is less torque?), but I noticed that any less than fully committed shot seems like I'm using a broomstick. Was I somewhat correct in thinking that more metal in shaft weight = more stiffness in flex?

I hate doing my DD, being right and then letting myself get swayed by the 'golf pro'.

[ForgedRbest]

That's hard to say Bulls, but did you hit any demo clubs with the different shafts in them?

[Bulls9999]

Yea, at least 3-4 times. Twice at one Golf Galaxy, once at another, once at a demo day....I think these guys were starting to think I was just wanting to hit some free balls...but they were all with the 6.0 flex. I must say though, even though the 5.5 flex 'feels' a little stiffer than my previous Nippon NS Pro 960 utlralights, when I hit a shot with a firm stroke, it flies and right on line.

I was just curious, because I was told (and it made sense to me), that you can have different levels of flex in different shaft weights...that is, regular, stiff, extrastiff, and when you go to a lower shaft weight, they still have the 3 gradations of stiffness....so I asked, how does a heavy shaft 'stiff' compare to a lower weighted shaft 'stiff' and was told that, think about it...less weight = less steel, so the lighter weighted 'stiff' wouldn't be as stiff as the heavier shaft. That got into my head and I started thinking about my previous shafts being 101 gms and the new ones are 120 gms (19% more 'steel'? = more stiff?). Played 2 half rounds with the new irons and didn't do any worse than I normally do.

Originally Posted by ForgedRbest

That's hard to say Bulls, but did you hit any demo clubs with the different shafts in them?

[ForgedRbest]

What they are saying is true. The heavier the shaft, the more wall thickness there is. That would influence shaft stiffness more then any thing.

[pick-it-up]

I hated the Nippon's.

I recently put the 5.5's on both sets of clubs. They seem to be the perfect flex and bend point for me.

What do you mean by it seems like you're using a "broomstick", it feels too rigid?

[Bulls9999]

Yes. I've only played two half-rounds and it may just be me being psychotic, but they seem stiffer....looking back on the DD I did, I guess I had the answer right in front of me being my old shafts were lighter by 19%. In regard to feeling like a broomstick, I mean, if I hit a full swing shot, they seem fine. Actually, even my wife commented that I'm hitting them on a straight line right at the pin (perhaps less torque on stiffer shafts?...that's a plus). If I hit something less than a full swing...a chip or half-swing, they seem to hit as if they're too rigid.

I guess....they feel more rigid, they're 20% more steel weight than my old shafts, I guess then....they are more rigid? lol.

I kinda was used to the flex I had in the Nippon's, not to say I can't handle a stronger flex, as would be indicated by my swing speed. I guess it will just take getting used to. If the stronger flex (than what I had before) translates into lower torque (less club face/shaft twisting), I think I'll end up liking that aspect.

Originally Posted by pick-it-up

I hated the Nippon's.

I recently put the 5.5's on both sets of clubs. They seem to be the perfect flex and bend point for me.

What do you mean by it seems like you're using a "broomstick", it feels too rigid?

[Bigvivec]

Originally Posted by Bulls9999

I mean, if I hit a full swing shot, they seem fine. Actually, even my wife commented that I'm hitting them on a straight line right at the pin... If I hit something less than a full swing...a chip or half-swing, they seem to hit as if they're too rigid

I kinda was used to the flex I had in the Nippon's, not to say I can't handle a stronger flex, as would be indicated by my swing speed. I guess it will just take getting used to.

I think that's the answer right there...

[3puttguy]

Originally Posted by Bulls9999

Yes. I've only played two half-rounds and it may just be me being psychotic, but they seem stiffer....looking back on the DD I did, I guess I had the answer right in front of me being my old shafts were lighter by 19%. In regard to feeling like a broomstick, I mean, if I hit a full swing shot, they seem fine. Actually, even my wife commented that I'm hitting them on a straight line right at the pin (perhaps less torque on stiffer shafts?...that's a plus). If I hit something less than a full swing...a chip or half-swing, they seem to hit as if they're too rigid.

I guess....they feel more rigid, they're 20% more steel weight than my old shafts, I guess then....they are more rigid? lol.

I kinda was used to the flex I had in the Nippon's, not to say I can't handle a stronger flex, as would be indicated by my swing speed. I guess it will just take getting used to. If the stronger flex (than what I had before) translates into lower torque (less club face/shaft twisting), I think I'll end up liking that aspect.

I agree you just need to get used to them. You are not going to load the shaft much or at all when hitting half swings and chips.

How are your distances compared to your previous irons?

[Bulls9999]

OK, just did some driving range work and another half-round and I'm starting to really like these irons, err, shafts. I'll have to say, they are more 'stiff' than my previous ones, but when I give it a fully-committed strike, they sail and straight like I've not been before. Just shot a 38 (+4) on the front nine of our course (34/36=par 70; back side is harder) and I just checked in the club house and I'm 15.1 index/16.0 handicap (geesh, was down to 13 at the end of last season...my problem with that is I play during the winter on the trampled down/dormant Bermuda which just kills me...I need the plushy grass that we're now getting with the excess rain we've had...now I should see a scoring reversal!!).

After playing 3 half-rounds, I'd say my distances are about the same, maybe a tad better than before with my long irons (hey, these are flighted...I guess they should be, no?). Where at first I wasn't excited for getting into 'stiffer' shafts than I was hoping for, I'm now excited that a) I can hit them, just takes a little getting used to and, b) I think stiffer translates into lower torque and perhaps thats why I feel I'm hitting them dead on target...actually putting the ball where I'm aiming at, lol!!

Sorry to have started this thread as a whiner about my new irons without having given them a chance....just got worried too soon.

Originally Posted by 3puttguy

I agree you just need to get used to them. You are not going to load the shaft much or at all when hitting half swings and chips.

How are your distances compared to your previous irons?

[Bulls9999]

Was doing some more investigating on steel shaft weighting, stiffness, & torque:


Nippon Shaft - Steel

SPECS - N.S. PRO 950GH

Product Flex Length in. (Count No)Weight (g)Balance Point (%)Torque ft/bs(°)Kick PointButtTip

RI-Q16 PRO.... R 39.5~35 (#1~9, W). 94.5 51.9 ............. 2.0 Middle15.50 (0.610)9.02 (0.355)

SRI-A16 PRO. SR 39.5~35 (#1~9, W) 96.0 51.9 ............. 1.9 Middle15.50 (0.610)9.02 (0.355)

SI-N16 PRO.. S 39.5~35 (#1~9, W).. 98.0 51.9 ............. 1.9 Middle15.50 (0.610)9.02 (0.355)

XI-D16 PRO.. X 39.5~35 (#1~9, W). 104.0 51.9 ............ 1.6 Middle15.50 (0.610)9.02 (0.355)


And I was wondering if my new Callaway X-20 Tour 5.5 flex steel shafts (120 gms) were 'stiffer' than my previous Titleist NS 950's (101 gms....says 98 above). But i'm getting used to them and I suspect the lower torque due to the stiffness is resulting in straighter ball flights, or at least, going where I intend them to go, lol.

[Scott1s]

I do not like Nippon's....way to light. Project X play stiffer than most other shafts. If you put them up aginst Dynamic gold....as the gold standard.....Nippons play weaker...and Project X play stiffer.

[SolidRockGolf]

I'll agree with Scott1s here... The Nippon's play weaker then "standard" and the Project X's will play "ever so slightly" stiffer.. It will take some getting use to.

I will also add that more material can/will make the shaft play stiffer but also build process can effect/change that theory some what..

Take the DGSL's for example... to make them as light as they are they had to strengthen the tip wall by making it three solid layers which will cause the light weight shaft to play stiffer then the standard DG's. ...

The Project X's are alittle stiffer but they seem to have a nice smooth feel to me..

[Bulls9999]

Thanks for all the comments. Great, glad it wasn't my imagination and at least my research pointed me in the right direction of the answer that was confirmed by many here. I was only intended to get a shaft flex similar to my Nippons in my original Titleist's, and even when I mentioned to the golf shop owner about the increased weighting of the 5.5flex Precision X's (~120 gm vs ~101 gm), he still strongly urged me to get them, that "you wouldn't want the 5.0's". Well, I was surprised 'how stiff in comparison' the Precision X 5.5's were and I got scared at first....but I'm getting used to them and am really starting to like them. I just wasn't expecting as big a difference as I found. As I researched more into stiff vs. less stiff shafts, I'm finding that it somewhat translates into lower torque and I am finding my approach shots are going closer to my intended target line than I used to.

Originally Posted by SolidRockGolf

I'll agree with Scott1s here... The Nippon's play weaker then "standard" and the Project X's will play "ever so slightly" stiffer.. It will take some getting use to.

I will also add that more material can/will make the shaft play stiffer but also build process can effect/change that theory some what..

Take the DGSL's for example... to make them as light as they are they had to strengthen the tip wall by making it three solid layers which will cause the light weight shaft to play stiffer then the standard DG's. ...

The Project X's are alittle stiffer but they seem to have a nice smooth feel to me..