Nike Dymo Str8-Fit Drivers

[Bulls9999]

Just curious if anyone knows the answer to this question.

Background...the Nike Dymo Str8-FIT allows one to change the loft/face angle of the driver by loosening a hosel nut, changing the shaft position and then re-tightening. They have various default loft angles (8.5, 9.5, 10.5) upon which you can change up to 2-degrees either way of the listed default loft (i.e., listed as 9.5 can be set at 7.5, 8.5, 9.5, 10.5, 11.5)

My question.... Is it the head or the shaft fitting sleeve that determines the various angles? The reason behind the question is, that if it's the head, then this makes for machine tooling multiple versions to accomodate the three different sets of default/adjustable angles that can be accomodated. If it's the shaft sleeve fitting, this is easier to machine tool instead of the head (I think).

It also means, that if its the shaft sleeve fitting that accounts for the changes (different shaft sleeve fitting tooled for the various default lofts), then you have to be careful if you switch one out from someone else's Dymo Str8-Fit. If it's the head that determines the loft angles, then all the shaft fittings/shafts would be readily usable and inter-switchable.

So, which is it?

[Bigvivec]

Bulls...I think that the loft differential is dut ot the opening and closing of the clubface ...opening reduces the effective loft while closing the opposite...I can't remember exactly but I want to say that for each degree open the face angle is you lose .6* effective loft and vice versa...

[OnePutt]

Opening the club face would Increase the loft not reduce it.
As for the Nike head and sleeve. I'd think that BOTH of them are machined AT AN ANGLE. I'd think the hose is machined OUT of line to the outside of the hosel, and the sleeve is also machance out of concentricity to the hole for the shaft to fit into. This would allow for the shaft rotation to cause the head angles to change. If ONLY ONE of the two, head and sleeve< were machined out of line, rotating the shaft wouldn't do what they want it to.
I have NO PROOF that this is what Nike did, but that's how I would it, based on some 30 years experience as a machiniest. I'd machine the hole in the hosel 2 degrees out of line to the outside of the hosel, and then machine the inside of the sleeve the same 2 degrees out of line to the outside of the sleeve. That would take care of the 4 degrees of loft change available with the Nike driver.
ALL of which in my opinion makes for a WORSE driver than if it didn't have this adjustment nonsense.

[Bulls9999]

I'm not sure why you can't have just one or the other? I mean, the hole in the driver head is the same (doesn't change it's position) as you turn the shaft/shaft sleeve adaptor, so in my mind, it must be that the shaft sleeve adaptor isn't parallel to the shaft that is sitting in it, so as you turn the adaptor, the position of the shaft, the angle of the shaft changes...otherwise, if the shaft was straight into the adaptor, no matter what way you turned, the angle would be the same, just like twirling a shaft in a hole...it's loft/lie angle stays the same as it is twirling in a circle, that is, unless the hole bored into the adaptor is off-kilter so the shaft doesn't sit straight in it.

I know that the TaylorMade R9's have a sleeve adaptor that isn't parallel to the shaft, that the hole in the sleeve adaptor is bored at an angle (at least one company selling sleeve adaptors for new shafts for the R9 claims that another 3rd party sleeve adaptor wouldn't do anything for you because that one is bored straight, so that no matter what position you turned it, you'd have the same loft).

So I suppose you could have 3 set of driver heads with different bore angles and off-kilt set of adaptors, or one bore-angle for all driver heads and 3 different sets of adaptors all set at different off-line angles? I would think the one-head system would be least expensive to implement rather than 3 different head settings.

OK, I'll have to defer to your machinest experience (which I don't have). I'll see if I can find out. I'm just curious if the shafts are completely interchangeable across the various heads or not....can you imagine if they are not and people assume they are, lol...."hey, why is my shot shape like like a figure eight?"

Originally Posted by OnePutt

Opening the club face would Increase the loft not reduce it.
As for the Nike head and sleeve. I'd think that BOTH of them are machined AT AN ANGLE. I'd think the hose is machined OUT of line to the outside of the hosel, and the sleeve is also machance out of concentricity to the hole for the shaft to fit into. This would allow for the shaft rotation to cause the head angles to change. If ONLY ONE of the two, head and sleeve< were machined out of line, rotating the shaft wouldn't do what they want it to.
I have NO PROOF that this is what Nike did, but that's how I would it, based on some 30 years experience as a machiniest. I'd machine the hole in the hosel 2 degrees out of line to the outside of the hosel, and then machine the inside of the sleeve the same 2 degrees out of line to the outside of the sleeve. That would take care of the 4 degrees of loft change available with the Nike driver.
ALL of which in my opinion makes for a WORSE driver than if it didn't have this adjustment nonsense.

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by OnePutt

Opening the club face would Increase the loft not reduce it.

Intuitively, it seems like this is what happens, but what really happens is when you switch the face to open, it turns out, but keeps the same loft. Then, when you hit it, you bring the club face back to square to the line, which is a couple of degrees closed to where it was when you twisted the shaft. That closedness brings the effective loft down, so if the club is bent open, you reduce the effective loft, not increase it. It doesn't mean the same thing as just sitting the club open (which would increase the loft like you said).

[OnePutt]

Ty. I agree with you, but it depends on whether you are talking about a driver with an OPEN face or you are talking about a driver with a Square face and YOU OPEN IT. If the face is OPEN, and you CLOSE it at impact, then YES, the loft would be less. But if the face of the driver is square, and you OPEN it and leave it open at impact, then YES, you increased the effective loft of the head.

Agreed?

[Bulls9999]

OK, I just got off a chat with Nike Golf Customer Support.... there is only 1 shaft/sleeve adaptor fitting for all the Nike Dymo Str8-Fit variations that are sold, whether lefty or righty, whether default loft is 8.5 vs 10.5-degrees. So he said any shaft/sleeve is interchangeable with any of the other heads you can get your hands on.

Interesting....the new Nike Victory Red Tour driver due out in February (with Voodoo as stock shaft), instead of the 8 settings that the Dymo has, it will have 32 settings....now who is going to be able to tell the nuance of change from the 30th setting to the 31st?, lol (Dymo is being retired, shaft sleeve won't work in the Victory red driver).

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by OnePutt

Ty. I agree with you, but it depends on whether you are talking about a driver with an OPEN face or you are talking about a driver with a Square face and YOU OPEN IT. If the face is OPEN, and you CLOSE it at impact, then YES, the loft would be less. But if the face of the driver is square, and you OPEN it and leave it open at impact, then YES, you increased the effective loft of the head.

Agreed?

Yes, that's correct. The adjustable driver is about making the club "open" so that to hit it straight you have to "close" it, hence an "open" driver has a lower effective loft than a square one.

[OnePutt]

Thank you. Now we are on the same page and that's always good.

[Bulls9999]

Well, I picked a RH Nike Dymo Str8-FIT up on Ebay for my son (79-gm X-stiff UST Axivcore blue) because the price was too low to pass up ($60) when most are going over $100...I'm pretty sure that even if he doesn't like it, I can get my money back if not more :-) . Having said that, I noticed that I overlooked a similar driver that I had put in my watch list (can't keep track of all of them in there) that had no reserve and no one even bid on it at $0.99 !!!!!

I'll tell you, it feels more solid than any of the Nike Sumo drivers I've used before (I can't hit this because I'm left-handed)

OK, I've been looking at the setting and of the 8 settings:

• 2 are neutral (square), both 8.5* loft (one is -2* lie, other is +2* lie)
• 3 are closed (-1*closed/9.5*loft/+1*lie, -2*closed/10.5*loft, -1 closed/9.5*loft/-1*lie)
• 3 are open (+1*open/7.5*loft/-1*lie, +2*open/6.5*loft, +1*open/7.5*loft/+1*lie)

Considering the open faced lofts are so low to begin with, they're likely not of much use to most people. It will be interesting to see if you need a computer to figure out the various combinations for the 2010 versions of this driver that will have 32 positions instead of 8...I don't see why you would need to have such small increments of change.

I probably wouldn't be able to hit the open faced positions to save my life, I prefer closed.

Anyway, we'll be seeing the Mgr of Product Development Saturday who offered to put us on the Trackman with various UST Proforce Axivcore shafts !!

[Bigvivec]

Bulls…I double checked a few things and my memory was correct…a head designed with an open face or a head like the R9 or Nike adjustables when opened decrease in loft .6* per 1* opened…in other words an adjustable head that is measured at 9.5* loft when the face angle is exactly neutral will measure -1.2* or 8.3* effective loft when opened 2 *…now heads are not created equal and the numbers that are stamped on the side of the head rarely indicate the true loft due to both manufacturing variance and OEMs that know that most people will buy a loft that is too low for them so rather than sell a club that doesn’t perform well they will boost the loft and sell a 9.5* driver with an actual true loft of a higher degree…I’ve heard instances of lofts being off +2-3* from what was written on the head…that being said, you can buy “tour” heads that are hand selected for loft and face angle with the true measurements included with the head…it takes the manufacturing variance out of the equation and allows you to get the exact fit that you are looking for…either way, open means down, closed is up in loft dependent on whatever loft that the club actually is that you start with…

Now as far as the technical aspect of HOW exactly a face is opened on a club, obviously it isn’t as easy as rotating the club open or closed (which would in fact affect the loft as OnePutt described) or spinning the head around the shaft…what would the difference be other than just turning the club open or closed? Why would anyone worry about face angle by design if you could just spin the club in your hands like an iron to open or close the face?

Now I own both closed and open faced drivers and there is obviously a difference in the angles in terms of how they are manufactured and weighted, sit at address and feel in the hands…custom shops can alter the face angle to a small degree sometimes but don’t guarantee against cracking or weakening…they will tell you that nonsencically the loft is affected the opposite of how you would think drawing off experiences of opening or closing the club at address and for open faced applications you need to buy a higher lofted driver to compensate for the loss of loft experienced in opening the face; generally the best way to buy a club with a face angle preferred is to buy it at whatever angle open or closed you wanted…that’s until the adjustables came along…now you buy a base loft as measured at neutral and then can adjust open or closed in relation to that angle with the variance in loft relating to that base value…I checked on the Nike hosel design and indeed it is at an angle to facilitate simulating how a fixed hosel driver head sits at address that is designed either open, neutral or closed and can rotate through those positions…

Here is a chart of one guy who tested the R9 in various positions and the results he came up with in terms of launch angle and spin rate…the results were in conjunction with a fitting from the TM tour van at an event he was playing in…

For a 9.5 degree R9 head, here are the adjustability capabilities (maximum amounts):

FACE ANGLE 2.0* OPEN 2.0* CLOSED
LIE 58* 60*
EFFECTIVE LOFT 8.5* 9.5*
TRAJECTORY BIAS 35 YD FADE 40 YD DRAW
LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS -1.8* +0.5*
BACKSPIN BIAS (RPM) -950 RPM +150 RPM

Here are the different setting positions as well:

R SETTING
FACE ANGLE 2* OPEN
EFFECTIVE LOFT 8.5*
LIE ANGLE 59*

HEEL WEIGHTED - NEUTRAL BIAS, -850 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, -1.5* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS
BACK WEIGHTED - 15 YARD FADE, -450 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, -0.8* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS
TOE WEIGHTED - 35 YARD FADE, -950 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, -1.8* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS

N/R SETTING
FACE ANGLE 1* OPEN
EFFECTIVE LOFT 9.0*
LIE ANGLE 58.5*

HEEL WEIGHTED - 6 YARD DRAW BIAS, -650 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, -1.2* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS
BACK WEIGHTED - 9 YARD FADE BIAS, -250 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, -0.5* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS
TOE WEIGHTED - 29 YARD FADE BIAS, -750 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, -1.5* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS

NU/R SETTING
FACE ANGLE 1* OPEN
EFFECTIVE LOFT 9.0*
LIE ANGLE 59.5*

HEEL WEIGHTED - 8 YARD DRAW BIAS, -600 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, -1.2* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS
BACK WEIGHTED - 7 YARD FADE, -200 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, -0.4* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS
TOE WEIGHTED - 27 YARD FADE, -700 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, -1.4* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS

N SETTING
FACE ANGLE SQUARE
EFFECTIVE LOFT 9.5*
LIE ANGLE 58*

HEEL WEIGHTED - 18 YARD DRAW, -400 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, -0.7* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS
BACK WEIGHTED - 3 YARD DRAW, 0 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, -0* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS
TOE WEIGHTED - 17 YARD FADE, -500 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, -1.0* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS

NU SETTING
FACE ANGLE SQUARE
EFFECTIVE LOFT 9.5*
LIE ANGLE 60*

HEEL WEIGHTED - 22 YARD DRAW BIAS, -300 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, -0.3* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS
BACK WEIGHTED - 7 YARD DRAW, +100 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, +0.04* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS
TOE WEIGHTED - 13 YARD FADE, -400 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, -0.6* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS

N/L SETTING
FACE ANGLE 1* CLOSED
EFFECTIVE LOFT 10.0*
LIE ANGLE 59.5*

HEEL WEIGHTED - 32 YARD DRAW BIAS, -100 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, +0.1* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS
BACK WEIGHTED - 17 YARD DRAW, +300 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, +0.8* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS
TOE WEIGHTED - 3 YARD FADE, -200 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, -0.2* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS

NU/L SETTING
FACE ANGLE 1* CLOSED
EFFECTIVE LOFT 10.0*
LIE ANGLE 58.5*

HEEL WEIGHTED - 34 YARD DRAW BIAS, -50 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, +0.2* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS
BACK WEIGHTED - 19 YARD DRAW, +350 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, +0.9* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS
TOE WEIGHTED - 1 YARD FADE, -150 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, -0.1* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS

L SETTING
FACE ANGLE 2* CLOSED
EFFECTIVE LOFT 10.5*
LIE ANGLE 59*

HEEL WEIGHTED - 40 YARD DRAW BIAS, +150 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, +0.5* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS
BACK WEIGHTED - 25 YARD DRAW, +550 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, +1.2* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS
TOE WEIGHTED - 5 YARD DRAW, +50 RPM BACKSPIN BIAS, +0.2* LAUNCH ANGLE BIAS

This will be constant with the other lofts, assuming you make the change for the effective loft.
Now these results are dependent on his swing, but at least it is a starting point in terms of what settings you might want to take a look at depending on which numbers you want to increase/decrease…I saw something not too long ago about spin and launch angles as it related to the angular degree of clubhead approach into the ball with a driver…listed were angles from -9* (inside approach)to 0*(neutral) to +3 or 5* (outside in)…surprisingly different results with the same club just based on swingpath with the 9* inside approach being the highest launching and longest hitting of all, but launch angles ranged from the mid teens to 6* or so, all dependent on swingpath…

Check out MyGolfSpy for the hosel info for the Nike driver here:

Nike Golf's Adjustable Loft/Lie Driver ?

[Bulls9999]

BigV, thanks for the info and the links. I know it's not a matter of just turning the club head around the shaft axis because on close examination of the shaft sleeve fitting, you can notice that the shaft is not inserted straight into the sleeve, but that the sleeve fitting is off-kilter a bit to the inserted shaft, so as you turn the shaft position, it will orient itself at different angles to the head. I'm still not sure I understand what was being mentioned about righting an open head to make it square and the issues that occur with changing the loft during the process....obviously you don't need an interchangeable shaft to do that, there's plenty of open faced drivers out there with fixed shafts? I'm not understanding the condemnation based on that....perhaps it's just a matter of 'if you know what's really happening with open faces (whether fixed or interchangeable) then you would realized the lofts they're played at is different than the stipulated lofts...yesa, I can accept that. I'm happy with my closed face driver :-)

[Bulls9999]

Geesh, my son came home and I had him try the club I picked up (for him if he wants it), and just went to the back yard and watch him hit a couple dozen balls into the adjoining field (that's why I take every ball I find when I walk our course...to feed our backyard 'basket' for our personall driving range)....had it on 9.5 loft and we switched it to 7.5 loft and he liked the trajectory much better, probably because his is the Axivcore Blue 79-gm X-stiff which is the higher launching of the Axivcore series....so probably we'll try the lower-spin/lower launching shafts when we get him fitted on the Trackman in Ft. Worth. I'll report back how that goes. But he was bombing them....said the Nike Dymo Str8-FIT felt pretty solid, thought at first the 79-gm shaft made it a bit heavy and was wondering if he'd be hitting fades, but he didn't. He thought the shaft was a bit long because at first he was hitting it on the heel and I said let's check because I've read that a lot of OEM manufacturers are saying their clubs are longer have actually put longer shafts on the clubs....and yes, it was 1-inch longer than standard. I told him to play with it and let me know if he wants it for a while or I'll just put it back on Ebay :-)

Originally Posted by Bulls9999

BigV, thanks for the info and the links. I know it's not a matter of just turning the club head around the shaft axis because on close examination of the shaft sleeve fitting, you can notice that the shaft is not inserted straight into the sleeve, but that the sleeve fitting is off-kilter a bit to the inserted shaft, so as you turn the shaft position, it will orient itself at different angles to the head. I'm still not sure I understand what was being mentioned about righting an open head to make it square and the issues that occur with changing the loft during the process....obviously you don't need an interchangeable shaft to do that, there's plenty of open faced drivers out there with fixed shafts? I'm not understanding the condemnation based on that....perhaps it's just a matter of 'if you know what's really happening with open faces (whether fixed or interchangeable) then you would realized the lofts they're played at is different than the stipulated lofts...yesa, I can accept that. I'm happy with my closed face driver :-)

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by Bulls9999

Just curious if anyone knows the answer to this question.

Background...the Nike Dymo Str8-FIT allows one to change the loft/face angle of the driver by loosening a hosel nut, changing the shaft position and then re-tightening. They have various default loft angles (8.5, 9.5, 10.5) upon which you can change up to 2-degrees either way of the listed default loft (i.e., listed as 9.5 can be set at 7.5, 8.5, 9.5, 10.5, 11.5)

My question.... Is it the head or the shaft fitting sleeve that determines the various angles? The reason behind the question is, that if it's the head, then this makes for machine tooling multiple versions to accomodate the three different sets of default/adjustable angles that can be accomodated. If it's the shaft sleeve fitting, this is easier to machine tool instead of the head (I think).

It also means, that if its the shaft sleeve fitting that accounts for the changes (different shaft sleeve fitting tooled for the various default lofts), then you have to be careful if you switch one out from someone else's Dymo Str8-Fit. If it's the head that determines the loft angles, then all the shaft fittings/shafts would be readily usable and inter-switchable.

So, which is it?

My Nike SQ Dymo2 str8 fit has no adjustment for the loft. Only open/closed or toe up/toe down. I was under the impression you could change the loft too, I can only speak on the one I have. No loft adjustment

[Bigvivec]

Originally Posted by Kurt

My Nike SQ Dymo2 str8 fit has no adjustment for the loft. Only open/closed or toe up/toe down. I was under the impression you could change the loft too, I can only speak on the one I have. No loft adjustment

Opening and closing the face changes the effective loft...open reduces and closing increases...it is not a fully adjustable thing which is why the driver head is offered in different lofts as measured in a neutral face angle alignment...