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Old 03-19-2008, 08:22 AM
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Does "Truing" Work?

Has anyone had their shafts "trued" and can you tell the difference?


What is Shaft Truing?

The fact is, no shaft is perfectly round, straight or stiff throughout it's length. Despite modern manufacturing techniques every golf shaft, whether steel or composite, remains as unique as a fingerprint and cannot be fully analyzed until after the shaft has been manufactured.

The PPOP, or Principal Planar Oscillation Plane, is the plane of assembly in which the shaft is most stable when striking a ball.

The Shaft PUREing process involves identifying asymetries within each shaft, using patent-pending state-of-the-art computerized locating equipment to pinpoint and correctly align the PPOP into the clubhead to optimize shaft stability and performance — ensuring the uniform matching of clubs within a set and allowing each club to perform the best of it's manufactured capability.



The Shaft PUREing printout provides visible proof that your shaft(s) has been "PURED" by seahorse golf technicians. The printout data that accompanies every shaft indicates its performance characteristics both prior to and following the Shaft PUREing process.

The red graph to the right shows how erratically a typical shaft can bend when not properly positioned in the clubhead.

The green graph to the right shows how consistently the same shaft bends in a pure consistent back and forth motion after proper alignment in the same clubhead.

A Shaft Analysis Sheet (left) is produced for each shaft or club submitted for Shaft PUREing showing the shaft's oscillation both before and after spine detection. Included with each shaft, these sheets provide visual confirmation of the shaft's improved symmetry with the spine positioned neutral
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:10 AM
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Re: Does "Truing" Work?

All of my graphite shafts are pured, and yes, I can tell the difference...
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:25 PM
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Re: Does "Truing" Work?

(Moved thread to Equipment Talk forum.)
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:53 PM
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Re: Does "Truing" Work?

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(Moved thread to Equipment Talk forum.)

Thank you JimSomebody. Idiot alert over here.
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Old 03-19-2008, 03:40 PM
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Re: Does "Truing" Work?

.


The short answer is "yes" Pureing works.

The long answer is that whether it's done correctly or not is entirely on the shoulders of the person doing the puring.

Pureing is a term used to describe identifying the location of the spine of a shaft (usually a graphite shaft, but steel shafts have spines as well) so that you can best utilize the characteristics of that shaft. The spine is generally the most rigid portion of the shaft and in most cases it is located so that when the shaft is installed into the clubhead, the spine faces the direction of the ballflight.
Sometimes, the spine can be oriented in such a way as to minimize downward flex (if for some reason that's determined to be a problem) and the spine will be faced towards the heel or perhaps there's a reason why the spine should point towards the toe and so on. Pureing simply identifies where the spine is and what a clubmaker does with that information it is up to him.

The biggest problem with pureing that I can see is that if the quality controls are very tight and diligently adhered to, then the pureing is accurate. But this is done by people and tese people may do hundreds of shafts in a work week. So if your shaft is being pured by someone who is conscientious and focused, you'll get a properly pured shaft. But if, say, your shaft was the last one done on a Friday before quitting time, then who knows?

Basically, if you trust the person or the company that does the pureing, you can use the shaft as it was designed to be used. But if someone isn't paying attention or is yawning their way through the work day, then it's a crapshoot.



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Old 03-19-2008, 03:46 PM
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Re: Does "Truing" Work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigvivec View Post
All of my graphite shafts are pured, and yes, I can tell the difference...

How can you tell?



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Old 03-19-2008, 05:14 PM
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Re: Does "Truing" Work?

I have had shafts SST Pured many times, and I can see a proformance increase every time. The statement that it's up to the clubmaker to do what he wants with the shaft after it is Pured, is false. According to the USGA, if the shaft is Pured, and marked for proper installation, it can only be installed according to the instructions for that shaft. To install it in any other way, is not allowed by the USGA. This is information I got directly from the president of SST Puring.
As for how I can tell it works is easy. When I install a Pured shaft in a wood, and hit balls with the club, the ball marks on the face of the club are in a tighter pattern than when a non-pured shaft is used. The size of the pattern can be 3 or 4 times larger with a non-Pured shaft. The same is true with a shaft that has been spline aligned. When a set of irons are built with Pured shafts, all the clubs will feel the same, or at least more alike than they would be other wise. The shafts will also all flex more consistantly from one iron to the next. I've been told many times by customers that when the shaft is PUred or spline aligned, the club feels more solid when hitting balls.
The SST Puring is done on a computer controlled machine. So I don't think it's too likely that there would be a problem with operator fatigue in the work week. I have no idea of how many shafts, both steel and graphite, that I've had Pured, and I've never had a problem with any of them being done in-correctly. I'm not saying it never happens, but I've never seen it.
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Old 03-19-2008, 05:44 PM
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Re: Does "Truing" Work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPsuff View Post
How can you tell?



-JP
Are you wanting to be a smart apple or are you genuinely interested!?!? I will assume the latter...





I hit straighter shots more often...




Could it be from practice...sure...have I had purple patches where I hit the ball as straight as I do when I am playing well now prior to the pureing...sure...





But now I hit straighter shots more often...


Whatever the reason, mark it down to pureing, practice, and just getting better...not too concerned, so "all of the above" gets the vote, and anyone who asks if any of the equipment modifications are responsible for my play will be told yes, as will anyone who asks if the path to better play lies in practice and analysis...

Who can tell? I just play better now...but I did notice tighter dispersion immediately after getting my clubs back from the shop, but the shafts were new as well...
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:30 PM
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Re: Does "Truing" Work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigvivec View Post
Are you wanting to be a smart apple or are you genuinely interested!?!? I will assume the latter...



I hit straighter shots more often...




Could it be from practice...sure...have I had purple patches where I hit the ball as straight as I do when I am playing well now prior to the pureing...sure...





But now I hit straighter shots more often...


Whatever the reason, mark it down to pureing, practice, and just getting better...not too concerned, so "all of the above" gets the vote, and anyone who asks if any of the equipment modifications are responsible for my play will be told yes, as will anyone who asks if the path to better play lies in practice and analysis...

Who can tell? I just play better now...but I did notice tighter dispersion immediately after getting my clubs back from the shop, but the shafts were new as well...



No, I'm not being a "smart apple".

All I'm saying is that for one to notice a difference between one thing and another, one must have experienced both things in order to make a comparison.

So basically, the only way you could tell if pureing "worked" would be if you first had a shaft in the club and established a standard of performance and then had that same shaft removed and pured and then re-installed according to the index mark placed on the shaft after having it pured and then used the club again.
If after doing that you noticed an improvement in performance, you could then declare that having the shaft pured was beneficial.


But if you simply went and bought a new shaft and had it pured and then installed it into the clubhead, you may like the way the shaft performs, but I'd be interested to know just exactly how you determined that it was the pureing which was responsible for that performance. If there is nothing else to which to compare the performance - no, before and after - then how would you know it was the pureing that worked and not just the fact that it's a new shaft?



-JP
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:37 PM
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Re: Does "Truing" Work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnePutt View Post
...The statement that it's up to the clubmaker to do what he wants with the shaft after it is Pured, is false. According to the USGA, if the shaft is Pured, and marked for proper installation, it can only be installed according to the instructions for that shaft. To install it in any other way, is not allowed by the USGA. This is information I got directly from the president of SST Puring.

All well and good, but how could someone actually enforce such a rule?

The little sticker that is placed on the shaft after it's been pured peels off very easily so if anyone checked, there would be no sticker, so how would anyone know the shaft was pured in the first place?

So if a clubmaker wanted to use a shaft in a certain way other than in an "approved" manner, all he'd have to do is get the shaft pured and then peel the sticker off and tell any interested party that the shaft was not pured. Or, if someone demands to actually see the sticker, it can easily be relocated to show that it was installed according to "SST Pureing" standards.



Of course, THAT never happens, right?




-JP
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Old 03-19-2008, 11:12 PM
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Re: Does "Truing" Work?

One of the shafts on a three wood that I had I pulled and reinstalled and it became "playable"...more loft, straighter, but most noticably was a snappier "kick"...


Answer to your other question about eating italian...of course you would be...that's what secondi and dolce are for!!!
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:17 AM
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Re: Does "Truing" Work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnePutt View Post
I have had shafts SST Pured many times, and I can see a proformance increase every time. The statement that it's up to the clubmaker to do what he wants with the shaft after it is Pured, is false. According to the USGA, if the shaft is Pured, and marked for proper installation, it can only be installed according to the instructions for that shaft. To install it in any other way, is not allowed by the USGA. This is information I got directly from the president of SST Puring.
As for how I can tell it works is easy. When I install a Pured shaft in a wood, and hit balls with the club, the ball marks on the face of the club are in a tighter pattern than when a non-pured shaft is used. The size of the pattern can be 3 or 4 times larger with a non-Pured shaft. The same is true with a shaft that has been spline aligned. When a set of irons are built with Pured shafts, all the clubs will feel the same, or at least more alike than they would be other wise. The shafts will also all flex more consistantly from one iron to the next. I've been told many times by customers that when the shaft is PUred or spline aligned, the club feels more solid when hitting balls.
The SST Puring is done on a computer controlled machine. So I don't think it's too likely that there would be a problem with operator fatigue in the work week. I have no idea of how many shafts, both steel and graphite, that I've had Pured, and I've never had a problem with any of them being done in-correctly. I'm not saying it never happens, but I've never seen it.
Then you must hit it further if the ball marks are clustered close together near the "sweet spot." Or do the shots just feel more solid. I guess what I'm asking is "What are the OBVIOUS advantages? More distance, more solid shots, more spin.....??
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:24 AM
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Re: Does "Truing" Work?

I didn't say it could be enforced, only that it's not allowed according the the USGA rules. Two different things. As for telling if it's the shaft or the Puring that made the improvement, I have to agree with you. You can't tell for sure. Not with one club. BUT, and it's still a BUT, I think that if you build 10 drivers with Pured shafts and 10 drivers with un-aligned shafts, and all 10 of the Pured driver proform better, then that's pretty good data on which to base one's conclusion. It may not be "PROFF POSITIVE", but it's pretty close. To be honest, I've never pulled a shaft and then had it Pured to see what difference it would make. The reason is simple, Cost. They charge $12 to Pure a shaft if I buy it from Golfsmith new. $25 if I send them a pulled shaft, plus shipping both ways. That just doesn't make sense to do. What I have done is play some drivers and woods as they came from the OEM, and then pull the shafts and do a spline alignment on the shaft and re-install it. With every club I've done this with, with every one where the spline alignment was changed from where it was before I pulled the shaft, I could see a big improvement in the consistance of my ball striking. Depending on how I install the shaft, I can make the shaft play softer or firmer, which can come in handy at times. At this time I have 8 OEM drivers on hand. Of those 8, I've done a spline alignment on 6 of them. All six driver performed better after I did the spline alignment on the shaft. While spline alignment and SST Pureing aren't exactly the same thing, I think it's fair to say they are close enough to say Puring those same 6 driver shafts would have given me the same results. I have 3 drivers with Pured shafts, and all 3 perform pretty much equal to the way the one with spline aligned shafts do. Again, this may not quality as Proof, but I think it's pretty solid data to make a statement that spline alignment and Puring both make a big difference in how a shaft will perform. Based on my 4 years experience with Puring and spline alignment. I will never build another driver or fairway wood and not do an alignment on the shaft.
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:35 AM
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Re: Does "Truing" Work?

If you order a new club, can you request the shaft be pured? or splined? I don't think I've noticed this option. I would think it's easier to do before they 'build' the club, unless what you are buying are premade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnePutt View Post
I didn't say it could be enforced, only that it's not allowed according the the USGA rules. Two different things. As for telling if it's the shaft or the Puring that made the improvement, I have to agree with you. You can't tell for sure. Not with one club. BUT, and it's still a BUT, I think that if you build 10 drivers with Pured shafts and 10 drivers with un-aligned shafts, and all 10 of the Pured driver proform better, then that's pretty good data on which to base one's conclusion. It may not be "PROFF POSITIVE", but it's pretty close. To be honest, I've never pulled a shaft and then had it Pured to see what difference it would make. The reason is simple, Cost. They charge $12 to Pure a shaft if I buy it from Golfsmith new. $25 if I send them a pulled shaft, plus shipping both ways. That just doesn't make sense to do. What I have done is play some drivers and woods as they came from the OEM, and then pull the shafts and do a spline alignment on the shaft and re-install it. With every club I've done this with, with every one where the spline alignment was changed from where it was before I pulled the shaft, I could see a big improvement in the consistance of my ball striking. Depending on how I install the shaft, I can make the shaft play softer or firmer, which can come in handy at times. At this time I have 8 OEM drivers on hand. Of those 8, I've done a spline alignment on 6 of them. All six driver performed better after I did the spline alignment on the shaft. While spline alignment and SST Pureing aren't exactly the same thing, I think it's fair to say they are close enough to say Puring those same 6 driver shafts would have given me the same results. I have 3 drivers with Pured shafts, and all 3 perform pretty much equal to the way the one with spline aligned shafts do. Again, this may not quality as Proof, but I think it's pretty solid data to make a statement that spline alignment and Puring both make a big difference in how a shaft will perform. Based on my 4 years experience with Puring and spline alignment. I will never build another driver or fairway wood and not do an alignment on the shaft.
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:39 AM
OnePutt OnePutt is offline
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Re: Does "Truing" Work?

Johneli: any time you can hit the ball closer to the center of the club face, more consistantly, you will get more average distance, and straighter ball flight. As I'm sure you already know, if you hit the ball dead center, then it will also "feel" more solid. That's true with any club and any shaft, Pured or not. I have no idea what effect Puring would have on spin. If you ask Goflsmith, they might be able to provide you with the test results from a test they did about 4 years ago. They used a robot and half a dozen drivers. Half the drivers were off the shelf OEM drivers, the other half were built with Pured shafts and component heads. They instaled the drivers in the robot, and aligned the head to the ball for dead center contact. Then they hit balls with each driver. With each of the drivers with Pured shafts. the club head returned to the ball so as to hit the ball extremely close to dead center on the face. With each of the OEM drivers. the ball contact was off center and inconsistant. In order to hit the ball dead center, they had to adjust the alignment off center, each driver in a different way. And even then the ball contact was not as consistant. For all the OEM drivers, the ball marks on the face covered at least twice as much surface area as compared to the drivers with Pured shaft. There was no human error due to using the robot. The only difference was Pured shafts compared to off the shelf non-aligned shafts.
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:45 AM
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Re: Does "Truing" Work?

Bull999: I don't know of any OEM that does either spline alignment or shaft Puring at this time. It would be nice, but it takes time and time costs money. Most any custom club builder can do it, and some do it as a matter of common practice. Spline alignment can make a hugh differenct in how a club will feel and play. Enough that I never recommend anyone buy a wood without hitting the club first. And then if you like that club, buy it, not a new one off the shaft in a wrapper. It could play completely different. Also the reason I don't recommend buying a club off ebay to save money. Same problem, unless you intend to pull the shaft when you get it.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:04 AM
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Re: Does "Truing" Work?

First off, “Puring” is a marketing name specifically used by Golfsmith/SST/Hotstixx….. it is the name they gave to the process shaft orientation which most competent clubmakers can do. Only difference between a regular clubmaker and SST doing it is SST over charges for it while most clubmakers (when assembling clubs) do it at no charge or minimal at best.

All shafts, have a spine of some discernable amount.

Usually steel have a more noticeable spine than graphite…but that is not always the case since graphite can be sheet wrapped or fiber wound… Sheet wrapped, usually have a larger spine than fiber wound…but ironically, usually cost more than fiber wound.

Many people argue that a driver with proper shaft orientation allows them to hit the ball better…..this is usually the placebo effect. Simply because no one, has an exactly repeatable swing…to think that proper shaft orientation would guarantee an increase in shots hit on the sweet spot (which is about the size of a pin head) is silly.

So is shaft orientation on woods unnecessary?

Nope.

It can never hurt…and only make things better…so I recommend it.

Another thing to remember is that the amount of spine influence will also effect the deflection of the shafts performance…so when measuring the shaft profile from one angle may give you one reading, turning it 45° around may give you a completely different reading.

I’ve seen shafts that have changed a flex and a half all dependent on orientation.

This is why , it may not be as necessary in assembly in a driver, it is CRITICAL in assembly of irons because not only do they have the most predominant spines (typically), but you want the shafts to frequency match, slope properly…and the only way to assure that is by testing and adjusting each shaft during the install process.

One of the worst line of shafts I’ve ever seen (in regards to conistency) are the Black/Gold shafts from True Temper….I’ve seen shafts that not only did not meet the flex they called out…but some that would be 13 cpm difference dependent on how the shaft was rotated.

If any of you want to be enlightend, take your irons to a local club fitter (or send them to Christian) and have them do a frequency check on your irons …I’d be willing to bet that unless they were assembled by a clubfitter, there’s enormous disparity from club to club.
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Old 03-20-2008, 12:37 PM
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Re: Does "Truing" Work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnePutt View Post
Johneli: any time you can hit the ball closer to the center of the club face, more consistantly, you will get more average distance, and straighter ball flight. As I'm sure you already know, if you hit the ball dead center, then it will also "feel" more solid. That's true with any club and any shaft, Pured or not. I have no idea what effect Puring would have on spin. If you ask Goflsmith, they might be able to provide you with the test results from a test they did about 4 years ago. They used a robot and half a dozen drivers. Half the drivers were off the shelf OEM drivers, the other half were built with Pured shafts and component heads. They instaled the drivers in the robot, and aligned the head to the ball for dead center contact. Then they hit balls with each driver. With each of the drivers with Pured shafts. the club head returned to the ball so as to hit the ball extremely close to dead center on the face. With each of the OEM drivers. the ball contact was off center and inconsistant. In order to hit the ball dead center, they had to adjust the alignment off center, each driver in a different way. And even then the ball contact was not as consistant. For all the OEM drivers, the ball marks on the face covered at least twice as much surface area as compared to the drivers with Pured shaft. There was no human error due to using the robot. The only difference was Pured shafts compared to off the shelf non-aligned shafts.
Thanks OnePutt and Indacup. Nice to talk to guys who have employed the technology for awhile.
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