20 Degree Driver??

[Bang-Golf]

Bang-Golf wants to know YOUR thoughts on a 20 degree driver??

yes? no? Maybe? Why or why not....

[Martini78]

Maybe for a 90 year old person... 20 degrees is more loft than a 5-wood. You'd have to make a 25 degree 3-wood and a 30 degree 5-wood to match it.

[Leaguegolf]

Originally Posted by Bang-Golf

Bang-Golf wants to know YOUR thoughts on a 20 degree driver??

yes? no? Maybe? Why or why not....

I've been using a 10 degree driver for at least 10 years. I've hit as much as 12 degrees but that proved to be too much loft for the trajectory I prefer. I have seen many, many players that could definitely use more loft on their drivers but 20 degrees seems a bit steep.

[GolfSavage]

I'm not sure I know enough about the correlation between loft and head size, and then figuring in shafts and kick-points, etc. But I would assume a greater loft angle would impose less side-spin, allowing straighter shots.

I have an SMT Solitaire 3.5 fairway wood with a DG S300 shaft. It has a 17* loft, and I often use it from the tee. It has a much lower flight than I expected from 17*, lower than my 10.5* driver, yet I regularly get a straight 250+ yards off the tee with it, only 15-20 yards less than the driver (and that's if I hit the driver straight!). So I think there's more to the equation than just the loft of the club, which makes me think there may be a reason someone would like a 20* driver loft if the rest of the club were built correctly for their needs.

[Bulls9999]

I thought the Nike Sumo Sweet 16 was supposed to be a hot seller? I picked up the Sumo Lucky 13 (13-degree) and I have no problem with it....unless I don't turn my hands over, lol.

Originally Posted by GolfSavage

I'm not sure I know enough about the correlation between loft and head size, and then figuring in shafts and kick-points, etc. But I would assume a greater loft angle would impose less side-spin, allowing straighter shots.

I have an SMT Solitaire 3.5 fairway wood with a DG S300 shaft. It has a 17* loft, and I often use it from the tee. It has a much lower flight than I expected from 17*, lower than my 10.5* driver, yet I regularly get a straight 250+ yards off the tee with it, only 15-20 yards less than the driver (and that's if I hit the driver straight!). So I think there's more to the equation than just the loft of the club, which makes me think there may be a reason someone would like a 20* driver loft if the rest of the club were built correctly for their needs.

[GolfSavage]

Anyone know what the highest lofted driver currently on the market is? Perhaps you do, Scott. As Bulls mentioned, Nike had the 16* Sumo, and I seem to recall seeing an 18* somewhere (ladies' driver, I believe).

[Texas Wedge]

Personally, I swing either a 9.5 or 10.5, so a 20 seems incredibly high-lofted, but I'm sure there are SOME people that would benefit from it. I think the main problem is going to be selling people on the idea of a 20* driver...especially men. Even men who don't need it want a stiff shafted driver and lower loft so they can say that's what they swing...not because it best fits their game.

[Nikeguy07]

Yea...16 was a decent seller for some women and old seniors with low SS's but 20 is just nuts...Don't waste the money!

[Bigvivec]

I can't really see why it would be a good idea...too much of a good idea (most people need more loft idea)...

[Bang-Golf]

Bang Golf wants everyone's valuable opinion regardless of age, gender, and skill level...we do not discriminate

[Martini78]

It might actually work for kids. Like I said before, if you made it for women or seniors, you'd have to make 25 degree 3-woods and such.

[Bang-Golf]

Originally Posted by Martini78

It might actually work for kids. Like I said before, if you made it for women or seniors, you'd have to make 25 degree 3-woods and such.

I totally agree with the Junior thought...(A junior line is another great idea)

My thought is that most people like their 3 and 5 woods...because the club is shorter and has more loft, golfers can control the club and add accuracy. Confidence = distance. With more mass, the 20 degree driver could fill that confidence mystery people are lacking!

If you had a 20 degree driver you could also chock down and hit the club off the deck like a 3 wood...so there would be no need for a 3 wood and you could add an extra hybrid or wedge depending on your preference.

[GolfSavage]

Originally Posted by Bang-Golf

I totally agree with the Junior thought...(A junior line is another great idea)

My thought is that most people like their 3 and 5 woods...because the club is shorter and has more loft, golfers can control the club and add accuracy. Confidence = distance. With more mass, the 20 degree driver could fill that confidence mystery people are lacking!

If you had a 20 degree driver you could also chock down and hit the club off the deck like a 3 wood...so there would be no need for a 3 wood and you could add an extra hybrid or wedge depending on your preference.

To hit the 20* driver off the deck effectively, the sweet spot would have to be lower on the face than most of today's drivers, probably even lower than the Cleveland Hi-Bore. But a combo driver/fairway wood is not a bad idea. The first youth set we bought my son had a "combo" wood made for driving and fairways, and I believe it was around 16* of 17*.

[Martini78]

Originally Posted by Bang-Golf

I totally agree with the Junior thought...(A junior line is another great idea)

Kids clubs might be a market worth delving into.

[arbitrage]

I can sort of see a 20 deg as a "safety" driver. When your normal 9.5/10.5 45" driver isn't working for you that day you will pull out the 20deg 43" "Safety" driver. You would have to make the head heavy like a 3/5 wood and use a heavier shaft. I can see someone using this that is intimidated by using a 3 wood off the tee when their driver isn't working. It definitely wouldn't be for the purists. It could be marketed as the SGI (Super Game Improvement) driver to go along with your SGI irons.


Just my

[Bang-Golf]

Originally Posted by arbitrage

I can sort of see a 20 deg as a "safety" driver. When your normal 9.5/10.5 45" driver isn't working for you that day you will pull out the 20deg 43" "Safety" driver. You would have to make the head heavy like a 3/5 wood and use a heavier shaft. I can see someone using this that is intimidated by using a 3 wood off the tee when their driver isn't working. It definitely wouldn't be for the purists. It could be marketed as the SGI (Super Game Improvement) driver to go along with your SGI irons.


Just my

I like the term SAFETY DRIVER>>>>interesting marketing idea as well...

[tachus]

maybe...maybe... MAAAYYYBEEE for juniors, but I don't see anyone else using one...

[GolfSavage]

Originally Posted by tachus

maybe...maybe... MAAAYYYBEEE for juniors, but I don't see anyone else using one...

Think about it, though - how many people 15 years ago thought that 10.5* would be one of the most popular lofts for a driver?

[Batteaux]

Been using a Ping G2 15.5 degree driver for a couple of years-love it.

[Bang-Golf]

We appreciate everyone's valuable opinion and time!!!...We will keep you posted about the possibility of a square headed 20 degree driver...

A thought to ponder: Why do most people hit their 3 and 5 woods straighter and further than their driver??

[Macaz]

I currently use an Adams Dual RPM 15.5 degree. I play off 12 and I've just ordered the 20* bang mellow yellow square. I think it's a superb idea for us mid handicaps

[Bang-Golf]

Originally Posted by Macaz

I currently use an Adams Dual RPM 15.5 degree. I play off 12 and I've just ordered the 20* bang mellow yellow square. I think it's a superb idea for us mid handicaps

Keep us posted about the 20 deg MY SQUARE>>

I have heard it is extremely versatile as far as hitting it out of the woods and even off the FW!

[Macaz]

Originally Posted by Bang-Golf

Keep us posted about the 20 deg MY SQUARE>>

I have heard it is extremely versatile as far as hitting it out of the woods and even off the FW!

Many thanks to Chris and Frank at Bang Golf for getting my 20 degree MY driver to me in the UK. This is a fantastic golf club. I've used it 3 days in a row and I've never missed with it yet. The confidence you get with it is unbelievable. My driver flight has always been slightly lower than average so it's great to have drives carry forever. You cannot slice this driver, it's either dead staight or a draw. I've hit it off the deck and out of the semi and even choked down with it on long par 3's. Fantastic. What a club this is. Tee it up and hit it loud and proud. Any mid to high handicap golfer should seriously consider an 18 or 20 degree MY driver. Thanks Bang Golf.

[Bang-Golf]

Originally Posted by Macaz

Many thanks to Chris and Frank at Bang Golf for getting my 20 degree MY driver to me in the UK. This is a fantastic golf club. I've used it 3 days in a row and I've never missed with it yet. The confidence you get with it is unbelievable. My driver flight has always been slightly lower than average so it's great to have drives carry forever. You cannot slice this driver, it's either dead staight or a draw. I've hit it off the deck and out of the semi and even choked down with it on long par 3's. Fantastic. What a club this is. Tee it up and hit it loud and proud. Any mid to high handicap golfer should seriously consider an 18 or 20 degree MY driver. Thanks Bang Golf.

Glad to hear your excellent Results! Sounds like your Confidence is sky high. How many strokes did you shave off of your game??

[Macaz]

Originally Posted by Bang-Golf

Glad to hear your excellent Results! Sounds like your Confidence is sky high. How many strokes did you shave off of your game??

I'm actually playing to my handicap of 12 again. My confidence is I'm always getting away well off the tee. I've just had the Bang Blue Graffaloy 45 Shaft replaced with a NV65 46" shaft. The MY460 head is about 10g lighter than usual so the extra 1" shaft and 20g in the shaft is giving me another 20 - 30 yds.

[Bang-Golf]

Originally Posted by Macaz

I'm actually playing to my handicap of 12 again. My confidence is I'm always getting away well off the tee. I've just had the Bang Blue Graffaloy 45 Shaft replaced with a NV65 46" shaft. The MY460 head is about 10g lighter than usual so the extra 1" shaft and 20g in the shaft is giving me another 20 - 30 yds.

Did the shaft change help? if so in what respect?

[indacup]

A 20* driver would actually be more in demand than most think...

A club fitter recognizes many swing limitations....so far in this thread people are only looking at swing speed being the determining factor in higher loft...but there are other things.

Probably the single most common swing flaw ESPECIALLY with women and seniors is an out to in swing...they tend to have limited mobility and end up delofting the head at impact.

A higher lofted face, would counter such swing flaws (to a certain point).

Also, theres a misunderstanding that by introducing such a driver would mean a need for suitably higher fairway woods.

That is old school thought.

In a world now where Hybrids are easier to hit, the player who gets the Hi lofted driver can now select Hybrids suitable for their game.

Most likely, if the player has trouble hitting a std driver...std fairway woods would prove to be harder to hit as well.

If the intention is to find an easier to hit driver...why would you ask them to hit a difficult FW club?

Last thing I'd recommend is as Bang introduces a higher lofted line (which they already have) I'd make it easier for the masses to accept and instead of etching an actual loft on the head...issue it a alpha designation...like "HL" for high Launch.

[fireman07]

20 seems a bit much.

[Bang-Golf]

Originally Posted by fireman07

20 seems a bit much.

Fireman,

Maybe for me and you it would be a bit much. But I never thought I would put a 65 degree wedge Bang-O-Matic CenterCut Iron, Forged/CNC Face and Back - Bang Golf, Inc.in my bag. I tried it and it helped with my scoring clubs.

I have seen a lot of higher handicappers, women, and juniors benefit from the higher loft. In addition, I have seen lower handicappers that have trouble hitting his/her 3 and 5 woods benefit from the higher lofted driver. The bigger head gave them confidence, which in turn gave them success!

[ZmaXimus]

Originally Posted by Bang-Golf

We appreciate everyone's valuable opinion and time!!!...We will keep you posted about the possibility of a square headed 20 degree driver...

A thought to ponder: Why do most people hit their 3 and 5 woods straighter and further than their driver??

Not sure I agree with this. If I hit my 5 wood further then my driver I wouldn't have a driver. I think this is the minority not the majority.

[Bang-Golf]

Originally Posted by ZmaXimus

Not sure I agree with this. If I hit my 5 wood further then my driver I wouldn't have a driver. I think this is the minority not the majority.

Hi ZmaXimus,

Based on a majority of the amatuer golfers I have dealt with throughout the years, most come to me saying, "I hit my 3 wood straighter and further than my driver!" ...Why?>>Because the club is shorter and he/she can control the club. Thus, more "center hits". This means a straighter and longer shot.

The increased loft makes it easier to hit "center hits" as well. Thus the golfer has increased "confidence"...

I believe for every 1/4" off center (close to the heel or toe) then we loose 7 to 10% distance.




p.s. Happy Holidays and Happy New Year!

[ZmaXimus]

Whats the definition of an Amateur?

[GolfSavage]

Originally Posted by ZmaXimus

Whats the definition of an Amateur?

Although I can't speak for Scott, I think he is referring to the average recreational golfer who is happy just to break a 100 and just doesn't put in the practice necessary to get a lot better. You mentioned that if you hit your 5 wood further than your driver, you wouldn't have a driver.

Well, a lot of amateurs who can't break 100 shouldn't have a driver! They'd be better served using a higher lofted 3 wood or 5 wood and keep it in the fairway. But the set of clubs they bought has a driver, or they bought the latest greatest driver and by golly they will use it! After all, everyone else uses a driver off the tee, so they do, too.

So if they use a 20° driver, they get to pull the big-headed club out for drives and maybe keep a few more drives in play. A club like the 20° driver helps overcome common swing flaws, like too much slice-inducing side-spin. Also, many amateurs fail to get enough height on their drives to maximize the carry. While a driver like this won't appeal to more skilled players, I can see it filling a niche for many others.

[ZmaXimus]

I guess i'm not an amateur but the driver is the weakest part of my game. I disagree with the logic that increasing loft will help keep the ball in play. Your still dealing with a club thats longer then the others. I think you are cutting amateurs short by telling them they don't need a driver

[RodeoTex]

Wow. Why?
My approach shot is usually made with a club with less loft.
Why would I need to hit shy balls from the tee?

[Leaguegolf]

Originally Posted by RodeoTex

Wow. Why?
My approach shot is usually made with a club with less loft.
Why would I need to hit shy balls from the tee?

Personally I prefer the ultra-gregarious and socially aggressive balls off the tee.

[xnavyct]

I read in the book On The Other Hand by Steve Anderson (thats the book written by a lefty PGA Master Professional specifically for left handed golfers) that the average amateur that doesn't break 100 very often doesn't really have enough swing speed to use a 9 or 10 degree driver. Their spin rate off the driver is going to be so much lower, so they are not going to get the distance they want. He comes right out and says if you don't have a swing speed of at least 90, don't carry a driver.

With a three wood, the additional loft helps with the spin, and that is why they can get more carry with the 3 than the driver. I know I rarely use my driver, I use my 3 wood.

[Bulls9999]

Do you attribute the "either dead straight or a draw" to the square driver or to the loft? I would think 'square'. I'd like to try one of those because I can't seem to draw anymore, even by accident. I suspect I haven't hit a draw, or anything that had the hint of a draw, in the last 1,000-1,500 drives. I used to be able to draw my driver around some dogleg rights (I'm a lefty)....but alas, no more. I gotta get back to basics to try and get that shot back....been trying slightly closed stance, hitting with slightly closed face, in-to-out...no luck.

Originally Posted by Macaz

Many thanks to Chris and Frank at Bang Golf for getting my 20 degree MY driver to me in the UK. This is a fantastic golf club. I've used it 3 days in a row and I've never missed with it yet. The confidence you get with it is unbelievable. My driver flight has always been slightly lower than average so it's great to have drives carry forever. You cannot slice this driver, it's either dead staight or a draw. I've hit it off the deck and out of the semi and even choked down with it on long par 3's. Fantastic. What a club this is. Tee it up and hit it loud and proud. Any mid to high handicap golfer should seriously consider an 18 or 20 degree MY driver. Thanks Bang Golf.

[Macaz]

Hi. I've been working away from home so was unable to reply to Scott's query in thread #26 about the change of shaft in my MY driver. Well, I've since bought another 20 degree MY head off ebay and had the original shaft put in it. I use the original shorter graffaloy blue shafted driver if I haven't played for a while (like recently) and the longer slightly heavier Aldila shafted driver when playing more often.

There is no comparison when I grip down on my driver and hit it off the tee on a lay up hole or a long par 3 compared to my playing partner who will hit either a long iron, a straighter faced utility or a 7 wood with tiny heads. The same goes for off the fairway.

My bang MY drivers are in my bag for keeps.

Macaz

[Blue_Arc]

Originally Posted by ZmaXimus

Whats the definition of an Amateur?

That would be me...
For some reason left handed drivers don't seem to go above 10.5
That's what I use. It took a long time to get anywhere with it. First thing I noticed was the sweet spot was hardly used but the top and bottom was getting wore out I found it now. Thing to remember is that with all the new club designs and course designs...the average score for the amateur still hoovers around 100 swings a round. Been that way since 1900

I think that the game requires massive amounts of practice and whatever clubs are available at the time is what we use and it's the man swinging that makes the score. Old school pros had the same scores as the pros today. Now how did they do it with all those old outdated clubs? In other words I believe you can take any club made and if you swing enough with it...it will be good. This of course is just an opinion. Just my thought. Simply ain't no magic club...it's the man...or woman. Ha!