driver fitting

[rebdan11]

hi, i have an titleist d1 driver it used to have the adilla proto vs shaft (reg) and it would normally go to right. so i re- shafted with a graphite design ys6 (reg) but now i'm all over the place. so i went for a fitting at american golf. i tried various drivers and found that on the launch monitor the callaway ft5 10 degree with fuji e150 shaft (reg) was best. 273 yards, 94 mph swing speed and 14.5 degree launch angle. i thought this was the club, but i went to another american golf and got put on a launch monitor and found that the new yonex 9 degree stiff shaft was best for me. 275 yards, 88mph swing speed 13 degree launch angle.now i'm totally confused what to buy.
has anyone got any advice on what i should do and if you think its the stiff shaft should i change my fairway woods as well.
thanks

[deronsizemore]

What kind of a launch monitor are you getting on? Just one of those simulators in the golf store or an actual launch monitor... cause there is a difference. It sounds like something is off by the numbers you're giving and I'm afraid you'll be disappointed when you get it on the course. If you're hitting the ball 265-275 with the driver, your swing speed is much higher than 88, so one of those two numbers is wrong. Either our swing speed is much higher or your not hitting the ball as far as it says. So, just by that, I wouldn't trust what it says personally.

I've hit in those simulator things inside the golf store and they are WAY off.

[mr3856a]

Originally Posted by deronsizemore

It sounds like something is off by the numbers you're giving and I'm afraid you'll be disappointed when you get it on the course. If you're hitting the ball 265-275 with the driver, your swing speed is much higher than 88, so one of those two numbers is wrong. Either your swing speed is much higher or your not hitting the ball as far as it says.

I was thinking the same, and it's more likely the latter. If you want to really get fitted, go to an accredited club fitter, not a golf store. They could put you on their with a Vokey 60* wedge and it would probably say you hit it 245.

[Bulls9999]

Are you sure about those numbers? My swing speed has fallen to about ~90 and I'm not even getting 250 anymore on those monitors (more like 230-240 at best), regardless of driver-shaft combo giving me the best numbers.. I wish I knew what the heck is holding me back....I feel in the best shape in years having worked out with my high school son for 6 months with weights to help him get a little more muscle tone (still skinny as a rail but flies it 275...I think that's the answer, gotta work on getting my waisteline down ).

Originally Posted by rebdan11

hi, i have an titleist d1 driver it used to have the adilla proto vs shaft (reg) and it would normally go to right. so i re- shafted with a graphite design ys6 (reg) but now i'm all over the place. so i went for a fitting at american golf. i tried various drivers and found that on the launch monitor the callaway ft5 10 degree with fuji e150 shaft (reg) was best. 273 yards, 94 mph swing speed and 14.5 degree launch angle. i thought this was the club, but i went to another american golf and got put on a launch monitor and found that the new yonex 9 degree stiff shaft was best for me. 275 yards, 88mph swing speed 13 degree launch angle.now i'm totally confused what to buy.
has anyone got any advice on what i should do and if you think its the stiff shaft should i change my fairway woods as well.
thanks

[JPsuff]

.


Find another golf shop or find a reputable clubfitter.

Never trust a launch monitor in a retail golf shop. For the record, the launch monitors that are used in such places are indeed real, bona fide launch monitors. They are not toys and they are not necessarily inferior in any way. But they ARE computer-driven devices and like all such devices they are only as good as their programming. I believe that many retail golf shops set up their launch monitors to produce results which flatter the user (read: "mark") so that whatever particular line of clubs the shop is pushing can be sold to that person.

I like to "observe" things and one of the things I've noticed in such places is that when a salesperson decides that someone is really interested in buying something, they invite them to try a variety of clubs. But the significant thing is that almost without fail, before any session begins, the salesperson needs to enter some data into the computer via the keyboard. Now it seems to me that if these launch monitors were set up properly, there would be no need to change anything, yet I see salespeople playing with the keyboards nonetheless.
Most people will simply assume that this person is "clearing" the unit or entering personal data for the session. This may very well be all there is to it, but they could also be "adjusting" some things to make the results seem more flattering and thus be better able to sell someone something.

For example, I've noticed that there are basically two types of people who use launch monitors: Those who are good players who are simply using the space to hit a variety of clubs to gauge feel or responsiveness and those who are desperately seeking a better game. Their actions and body language gives them away. The "players" generally pay little attention to the launch monitors or use whatever data they offer in a relative manner (x plus something or x minus something to determine the differences between clubs). The "hackers" tend to hang on every morsel of data and if the numbers don't "look good" they tend to become rather sheepish and act in a rather self-conscious manner.

Salespeople are trained to spot these differences and that's one reason why the "Can I help you?" moment often doesn't come until after someone has been swinging for a while and the salesperson has had a chance to size them up. They generally leave the "players" alone but they will gravitate towards the "hackers" like flies to honey. After a bit of chit-chat, the salesperson recommends some clubs to try and then comes the moment when they go to the keyboard. Then, after entering whatever data they seem to need, the mark is "suddenly" hitting everything out of the park. Ten or fifteen minutes later, this poor sucker is standing in line with some overpriced toaster on a stick along with a dozen "recommended" balls and whatever else he was told that he "needs" to play like Tiger.

I'm not saying that all golf stores do this, but considering the consultants, research, planning and design that goes into most retail sales layouts for such things as department stores (there's a reason why the clothing racks are so close together), or for supermarkets, (people have careers built around where to place the "Bounty" and the bananas) I would be surprised to find out that there was no such "manipulation" in retail golf -- especially considering the "impulse" nature of sales in such establishments.

As I said, the launch monitors are real and they're not toys and they can provide valuable and accurate data. But being products of the computer age, they can be made to be useful to the seller as well as to the consumer.



Caveat emptor



P.S. The "vital stats" on the PGA Tour are these: The average clubhead speed is 113 mph. The average ball speed is around 165 to 170 mph, the average launch angle is around 13 degrees and the average carry distance is around 284 yds.


P.P.S. The general "rule of thumb" for clubhead speed versus carry distance is this: (clubhead speed x 2.5 = carry distance). There are other factors which will influence the actual numbers, but this is a good "ballpark" multiplier to work with.


Do the math.



-JP

[rebdan11]

hi, thanks for the info. the monitor used in both stores was vector launch monitor.the first monitor was indoors and hit into a net with a real ball. the second was in a covered bay at a range with a range ball.i have since tried a few stiff shafted drivers today on a range and i barely reach 210 yards. so i have decided to go to the manufacturers to get fitted and hopefully not fitted up. i'm thinking callaway. i normally hit my titleist around 245 yards carry. when its straight. i'd be happy with that if my new driver could keep me in the fairway more often. also think you maybe right about the sales staff, he really tried to push the yonex, but i don't like to be pushed into buying something and said i'd think about it.
reb

[Bigvivec]

Anyone with an inventory of Yonex in the US is effectively sitting on dead stock...



JP, you have an excellent point...all the golf stores the guys are furiously pounding away at the keyboard...I recently went to a demo day at my range where I was tested by a TM rep...he was not involved in sales apparently, because he didn't do the usual things that a salesman does, or even point out the setup that worked best for me...only what trends showed up regardless of the club used...he also didn't touch the keyboard the entire time save for a single touch here or there (presumably a "go" key) and didn't enter any data for me at all, rather left it as it was set by the guy in front of me...
He even then suggested that I try the rest of the clubs at the demo to find the one that I felt the best about, only to look for certain characteristics of launch angle and check the spin rate...refreshing...

[OnePutt]

First off, you should know that the Vector launch monitor can not measure your swing speed, it only measures the ball speed, and then makes a guess at what the clubhead speed was. Not the best way to do things in my book. As for your numbers, I agree with what has already been posted. You're not going to hit the ball 275 yards with a swing speed of 88 MPH, or anywhere close to that.
I don't really have PROOF of this, but my local custom golf club shop, tells me it's 2.5 yards more carry for each MPH of BALL SPEED, not clubhead speed. If you figure ball speed is about 1.5 times your clubhead speed, that would make a difference of 3.7 yards roughly for each MPH of clubhead speed. If you have different imformation on which is correct, I'd love to know the facts here. I got my data from Delance Golf, a custom club fitter near me. They build drivers for a few of the guys that compete on the Long Driver curcuit. They also use the radar unit that tracks the ball from tee to landing, so they should know what their talking about.

As for launch monitors being adjusted to make a sale, I believe that completely. The way around this is to hit balls with your current driver at the same session as you demo the ones the store is trying to sell. If you hit your driver 50 yards longer than you know you hit it, you pretty much know the monitor is set up to sell you a new driver.