A Dying Art

[Diane]

After reading another thread, I started thinking about etiquette on the course, why we have it and why so many people no longer want to follow it. The basic tenets of etiquette are rather simple - it provides safety on the course, helps to keep the pace of play and encourages the maintenance of the course. Etiquette allows us an opportunity to be mindful of other players in a sign of respect for the game. It's an essential part of the game and steeped in culture and tradition.

Why people won't follow it is a bit more complicated. Is it that golf is now a game of the masses - people who came to the game later in life and don't understand why etiquette is so important? Is it that people have a sense of entitlement and feel they are above adhering to the etiquette thus mirroring what is happening in society in general? Or is just quite simply that people feel that following etiquette is an act of humility and therefore choose to not do so?

[mr_bogey]

Since I hit a fairway trap shot out of a footprint today, I am keenly aware of that which you speak. You make some wonderful points about the importance of etiquette
on the course. I believe the new golfers of yesteryear were brought to the game by seasoned players and were taught etiquette as they were were introduced to the game, which in yesteryear was most commonly played in the private course setting. I think much more often today new golfers come into the game along with other new golfers and usually in a public course setting. I think most have a keen desire to 'do the right thing' , they just aren't as readily exposed to just what the right thing might be.

[PA PLAYA]

Having spent several years working in the industry, I think I have a pretty good take on the issue.

Couple of things are in play here... both are very much credited for some of the blame. First, there has been an enormous boom in golf since Tiger came on the scene. Golf was suddenly a cool sport. Thousands of people took up the game. Tee times became very hard to get for a few years, as the economy was still thriving and people had the money to invest in the game.

The PGA Professionals that run clubs all across America suddenly enjoyed this new-found prosperity. More lessons, more rounds, more retail sales, more revenue. But they failed to deliver a much-needed lesson: How the etiquette impacts the game, and the people, and the golf course. Things that they learned in their apprenticeship, things that every beginning golfer should learn as well, and things that everyone (be it seasoned players or newbies) should always hear from their staff at their facility. It became quite obvious that as long as you paid a greens fee, that's really all that mattered. And in the end, all that philosophy did was cheapen the product.

But we just can't blame PGA Professionals. Each of us, at some point, have played a round with a beginning golfer. We have had the opportunity ourselves to educate and teach the newer players (as well as the older players who just don't care) about why etiquette is so important in this sport. And some of us do, no doubt. But most of us don't, which is why we continue to struggle with conditions and pace of play most noteably.

Many golf courses don't even talk about these things anymore. They'll give you the cart restrictions (if you take a cart) and they'll point to a placard on the cart or refer you to read the back of the scorecard for expected etiquette. But they seldom talk about it. And how many people are going to take the time to read? Very few, if any.

Having worked in this industry, I got a first-hand account of exactly why we have issues on golf courses today. And let me tell you, when I found a course that was doing the job and holding the standard, I made sure to tell them. And if they were failing in their duties, I made sure to tell them.

It exists because it isn't talked about and subsequently it's becomes tolerated, plain and simple.

Of course, jmo.

[Fileygolfer]

Here in the UK, it is a Regional Society thing.

Too many people only give a thought to themselves and don't care if their actions effect anyone else. This is more apparent in the Cities. Take driving a car, in the City if you are trying to get out of a side street into the main street, people will speed up to block you getting out while out in the country they will slow down and let you out.

[GenErr]

Golf is one of the few sports where the participants are expected to maintain the playing field. In baseball, you don't have to brush off home plate, the umpire does that. You don't have to rake the infield between innings, the ground crew does that. In hockey the Zamboni fixes all the ruts created by the players. It is also somebody else's job to call penalties on you (umpires and refs).

New golfers may have the mindset that it is someone else's job to rake their traps, replace their divots and fix their ball marks. If they move their ball in the rough, who cares?, no one is there to call it on them!

The starter could remind everyone to take pride in the course and make sure they fix their ball marks, rake their traps and replace their divots.

Having marshalls patrol the course (in a friendly manner of course) to keep up the pace of play, and when they see an infraction, tell the person to fix it. "We rake our own traps here," or "you'll have to replace that divot yourself," etc... Also positive remarks go a long way - "hey guys I watched you all approach the green on the last hole. Great job raking your traps and fixing your ball marks, thanks. There should be more golfers like you out here." etc...

I think most people want to play the game "right." They just need to be reminded sometimes.

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by GenErr

Also positive remarks go a long way - "hey guys I watched you all approach the green on the last hole. Great job raking your traps and fixing your ball marks, thanks. There should be more golfers like you out here." etc...

I think most people want to play the game "right." They just need to be reminded sometimes.

I was playing a now-defunct 9-holer while vacationing up north a few years back. #9 was a 200+ par 3. I was hitting a couple of balls. I hit my 2nd to about 8'. I played up with the other one , fixed a couple of ball marks and putted out. I saw the guy from the pro shop walking towards me. I thought I was going to get scolded for playing more than 1 ball. He said he just wanted to thank me for fixing my ball mark and he wished more of his customers would do that. Other than slow play I haven't really noticed much of a difference over the years, though the greens at some places I play do get pretty chewed up towards the end of the season so I guess fixing ball marks may be worse now too.

[OnePutt]

After reading the other posts on this subject, I have to ask. Why do we have to teach manners and what's right to people ? My parents taught me manners and what was right and what was wrong. It's my opinion that teaching kids what's right and wrong is a dying art. Today, more and more people are looking for someone else to pay their way, and not willing to work for what they want. Sueing others is the big way to get ahead today. If more people would take responsbility for their actions, we wouldn't have to tell them how to act properly.

[Darth Fader]

Diane raises a good question and one that needs acting on. In mainland Europe some countries have introduced a scheme wherin you are not allowed to play on a course until you have sitten a test on the rules and etiquette of the game. Is the R&A and the usga needing to adopt this idea? Courses can put up all the usual notices they want 'replace divots' repair pitchmarks' etc etc it isnt working,something must be done to maintain the very fabric of the game.

[JPsuff]

.



The very first thing my father taught me about the game of golf - before he even handed me a club to swing - was etiquette.

• Be quiet when others are playing
• Fix your ballmarks
• Replace your divots
• Don't stand in someone's putting line
• Don't cast a shadow on someone's putting line or over their ball

He also taught me how to properly tend a flagstick (grasp the flag to keep it from flapping and remove it slowly from the cup after the putt is struck) and how to hold it while others were putting (don't let it rest on the green with the stick digging in to the green). He also taught me about "honors" and how to rake bunkers (as well as how not to ground my club) as well as many other "finer points" of the game.

I knew all of this before I ever played a round of golf because he told me that it was important and when we played, he'd reprimand me if I "forgot".
He also told me that I couldn't play on a "big" course until I could adequately move the ball around the "small course" (a local 'executive' nine) and keep up with the pace of play because he didn't want to have me "holding everyone up".

He was very strict about these things but it was because he respected the game. He was a former caddie and he loved golf. When he realized that I had a keen interest in it myself, he wanted to make sure that I understood its rules, its customs and traditions and most importantly its etiquette. In his eyes, etiquette was just another word for manners and both of my parents taught me manners. Manners (etiquette) are a sign of breeding and respect for others.

I'm sure that I thought all of this was "boring" or "silly" when it was first taught to me, but I've never regretted having learned the manners of society or the etiquette of golf.

I think that such knowledge should be compulsory in life as well as in golf.



-JP

[CG8]

Originally Posted by JPsuff

.



The very first thing my father taught me about the game of golf - before he even handed me a club to swing - was etiquette.

• Be quiet when others are playing
• Fix your ballmarks
• Replace your divots
• Don't stand in someone's putting line
• Don't cast a shadow on someone's putting line or over their ball

-JP

If you follow that list you should not really have a problem on a golf course . I find that you run into problems more playing at public courses as opposed to a private course . I play on a private course where all the members are very good when it comes to golf etiquette .

[GolfSavage]

Originally Posted by JPsuff

.
The very first thing my father taught me about the game of golf - before he even handed me a club to swing - was etiquette.

• Be quiet when others are playing
• Fix your ballmarks
• Replace your divots
• Don't stand in someone's putting line
• Don't cast a shadow on someone's putting line or over their ball

He also taught me how to properly tend a flagstick (grasp the flag to keep it from flapping and remove it slowly from the cup after the putt is struck) and how to hold it while others were putting (don't let it rest on the green with the stick digging in to the green). He also taught me about "honors" and how to rake bunkers (as well as how not to ground my club) as well as many other "finer points" of the game.

I knew all of this before I ever played a round of golf because he told me that it was important and when we played, he'd reprimand me if I "forgot".
He also told me that I couldn't play on a "big" course until I could adequately move the ball around the "small course" (a local 'executive' nine) and keep up with the pace of play because he didn't want to have me "holding everyone up".

He was very strict about these things but it was because he respected the game. He was a former caddie and he loved golf. When he realized that I had a keen interest in it myself, he wanted to make sure that I understood its rules, its customs and traditions and most importantly its etiquette. In his eyes, etiquette was just another word for manners and both of my parents taught me manners. Manners (etiquette) are a sign of breeding and respect for others.

I'm sure that I thought all of this was "boring" or "silly" when it was first taught to me, but I've never regretted having learned the manners of society or the etiquette of golf.

I think that such knowledge should be compulsory in life as well as in golf.

-JP

I think you nailed it right there, JP. How many of us that do these things learned to play from someone else who loved the game? Like JP, my dad ingrained certain fundamentals and the etiquette of golf into us long before we were allowed on a course. People I play with who demonstrate the proper etiquette and respect for the game invariably are people who learned from another golfer.

My good friend started playing about 8 or 9 years ago when he figured it would be good for his career. He went to a range and took some lessons, then started playing. We used to live about an hour apart, and when I found out he was playing, I started going up and playing with him now and then. The first round together, I'd remind him to fix his divot, to rake the bunker, and I showed him how to fix a ball mark. Then on one hole I saw him throw the flag stick on the green, and I asked him why he did that. He looked at me like he didn't know what I was talking about. So I explained that other golfers would be playing behind us, and they'd appreciate having the green in as good a shape as we found it, if not better. I asked him if during any of his lessons the pro had mentioned golf etiquette and why we should follow its guidelines. He said the phrase was mentioned, but it was never discussed or demonstrated. In fact, he said, he had learned more about what golf really is in those first 6 or 7 holes with me than he ever learned from the pro. And my lessons were much cheaper!

The next time we played, a couple of months later, he was seriously addicted, and a veritable etiquette ambassador, reminfing his playing partners to fix divots, repairing ball marks, raking his fottprints and any others he saw, watching out for people's lines, being quiet while others hit, etc. If he walks up on a green today and can't find some ball marks to fix, he's disappointed!

[C-Tech]

Originally Posted by GolfSavage

I think you nailed it right there, JP. How many of us that do these things learned to play from someone else who loved the game? Like JP, my dad ingrained certain fundamentals and the etiquette of golf into us long before we were allowed on a course. People I play with who demonstrate the proper etiquette and respect for the game invariably are people who learned from another golfer.

My good friend started playing about 8 or 9 years ago when he figured it would be good for his career. He went to a range and took some lessons, then started playing. We used to live about an hour apart, and when I found out he was playing, I started going up and playing with him now and then. The first round together, I'd remind him to fix his divot, to rake the bunker, and I showed him how to fix a ball mark. Then on one hole I saw him throw the flag stick on the green, and I asked him why he did that. He looked at me like he didn't know what I was talking about. So I explained that other golfers would be playing behind us, and they'd appreciate having the green in as good a shape as we found it, if not better. I asked him if during any of his lessons the pro had mentioned golf etiquette and why we should follow its guidelines. He said the phrase was mentioned, but it was never discussed or demonstrated. In fact, he said, he had learned more about what golf really is in those first 6 or 7 holes with me than he ever learned from the pro. And my lessons were much cheaper!

The next time we played, a couple of months later, he was seriously addicted, and a veritable etiquette ambassador, reminfing his playing partners to fix divots, repairing ball marks, raking his fottprints and any others he saw, watching out for people's lines, being quiet while others hit, etc. If he walks up on a green today and can't find some ball marks to fix, he's disappointed!

My Dad didn't teach me the etiquette of golf because he didn't play, heck, there wasn't even a course within 50 miles of my hometown. But he did teach me basic standards by which to treat other people and other people's things. So, when I took up golf, I wanted to know the customs and norms expected of a player. I have always thought it was important to know and understand the social rules that govern us and use them. When we had dinner in my father's house, we were expected to know how to dress properly, use the right utensils and exhibit proper table manners. My Dad always said that if I knew how to act I would never embarass myself in a social setting. He was right about that and it has extended to many other areas of my life. If everyone taught these lessons to their children, golf and the world in general would be a better place. Leave it better than you found it is a really good rule.

[macmovieman]

I am a newer golfer and no one really ever took the time to teach me some of the things mentioned here. I watched as others would do it and I just mirrored their behavior. I just now learned that it is not a good idea to lay the flag stick on the green. Many of the rules are pretty basic but I just thought I would share the other side of the coin. I am very eager to learn everything I can about the game and I would like to do it correctly. Aren't there also rules on par2 or par3 shots where the cart is not allowed on the course? Someone mentioned it to me once. I also found out the hard way not to walk in someone elses line before they putt. The good news is I only need to be told once.

[Diane]

Originally Posted by macmovieman

I am a newer golfer and no one really ever took the time to teach me some of the things mentioned here. I watched as others would do it and I just mirrored their behavior. I just now learned that it is not a good idea to lay the flag stick on the green. Many of the rules are pretty basic but I just thought I would share the other side of the coin. I am very eager to learn everything I can about the game and I would like to do it correctly. Aren't there also rules on par2 or par3 shots where the cart is not allowed on the course? Someone mentioned it to me once. I also found out the hard way not to walk in someone elses lines before they putt. The good news is I only need to be told once.

Most par 3's are cart path only, but they are usually marked - just assume you can never bring the cart. There are no par 2's. I belong to a women's league and we have mentor play days - we teach newer golfers the rules, etiquette and pace of play. I love those days - I can say all the things I want to say every other day and there's no penalty.

[macmovieman]

My company has me taking clients and we are going to very nice courses. I think people just assume that you know? You mentioned in your post that you can say all the things I want to say every other day and there's no penalty. What does that mean? Are people upset when you tell them? Just wondering.

[Diane]

Originally Posted by macmovieman

My company has me taking clients and we are going to very nice cources. I think people just assume that you know? You mentioned in your post that you can say all the things I want to say every other day and there's no penalty. What does that mean? Are people upset when you tell them? Just wondering.

If it's something blatant, I will say something. Some people in the league I play in get offended so I try to be careful about it. Most of the women I play with try to be very subtle so as not to embarass someone. Most people aren't like you. I was lucky enough to learn as a client and grew up in a family of golfers so most of this is 2nd nature for me. The USGA rules of golf has a general etiquette section, which would be helpful. Also, just read people's pet peeves here and you'll know what to watch for.

[Bulls9999]

I know what you mean. I played 9 holes at our club course this past saturday. I was behind a 4-some of adults with one youngster, approx. 12 yrs old. Being along, I caught up with them before they finished the second hole, standing in the fairway, leaning on my iron, taking some practice shots, leaning on my iron, taking more practice shots....they saw me and waived to say hello!!...then putted out and went to the next hole. I pitched to the green, 2-putted, and went to the next tee box (they had carts, I was walking)....they were just finishing as I walked up....the youngster was the last to hit (par3 over water).. puts one in the water then dribbles another halfway there...they glanced at me and drove off. There I am waiting quietly, making no bones about it, hitting pecans off the tee box into the water. Then about the time they started putting, I teed up a ball and started with some practice swings. I know they saw me....they putted out and went ahead. My tee shot was up in the air before they made it to the next tee box....landed just short of the green. Got there, chipped to to 5 feet, lipped the put, and made bogie. Again, I get there before they finish hitting their balls...youngster is playing from the same tees and shanks one left....tees up another, shanks it right, tees up another and hits it 120 yrds up the fairway. He looks at me and I say "don't worry, you'll get the hang of it"....they drive off and leave me to wait another 10 min before I can tee off.

Now, I never complained, I never got testy, but you would think common courtesy would say....gee, you're alone, you're pretty quick....do you want to play through? I guess that would have thrown them 2 min behind.

From there on, I took out 4 balls and played all of them and still had to wait on them. I simply considered it as a 'practice round'.

I have to say, my wife and I have always.... ALWAYS....let people through, if not for common courtesy then because we hate to play with people breathing down our necks.

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by Bulls9999

Now, I never complained, I never got testy, but you would think common courtesy would say....gee, you're alone, you're pretty quick....do you want to play through? I guess that would have thrown them 2 min behind.

It is of course, but they may have just been clueless. In that situation it's not rude to ask to play through, IMO. All they could do is say no. In fact I'd go as far as to refer them to the bullet point that's on nearly every card "Let faster groups play through". They may thank you for the education.... but I wouldn't bet on it.

[Diane]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

It is of course, but they may have just been clueless. In that situation it's not rude to ask to play through, IMO. All they could do is say no. In fact I'd go as far as to refer them to the bullet point that's on nearly every card "Let faster groups play through". They may thank you for the education.... but I wouldn't bet on it.

I was taught that the etiquette says the group in front must make the offer for you to play though rather than you asking. Perhaps that is archaic, but that's the way I learned it.