question about course markers...

[carolinagolfer]

Are the stakes for yardage markers for the front or center of the green? I have been told both ways. And....is it the same for every course? I am referring to the 100, 150 and 200 yard markers. Forgive my ignorance!!

[JPsuff]

Originally Posted by carolinagolfer

Are the stakes for yardage markers for the front or center of the green? I have been told both ways. And....is it the same for every course? I am referring to the 100, 150 and 200 yard markers. Forgive my ignorance!!

The reason you've been told "both ways" is because it still is both ways. Here in the Northeast, every course I've ever played measures their yardages from some sort of "official" marker set in the ground on the tee, (up here this is done by the MGA) and its stated distance, as well as all measurements from there on out refer to the center of the green.

But, there are still courses out there whose measurements are taken to the front of the green. One would think that this would be standardized by now, but I think the "front" dimension is largely a throwback to the caddy days when they were relied upon to "fill in the blanks" once past the front edge of the green. Any club that still measures this way is doing so probably more out of exclusivity or that they require players to take a caddy (or perhaps purchase a daily pinsheet).

I think that all measurements should be to the center of the green.


-JP

[alangbaker]

Originally Posted by carolinagolfer

Are the stakes for yardage markers for the front or center of the green? I have been told both ways. And....is it the same for every course? I am referring to the 100, 150 and 200 yard markers. Forgive my ignorance!!

While I don't believe there is a hard and fast rule, I can't ever recall playing on a course where the markers were anything other than to the centre of the green.

[carolinagolfer]

Originally Posted by JPsuff

The reason you've been told "both ways" is because it still is both ways. Here in the Northeast, every course I've ever played measures their yardages from some sort of "official" marker set in the ground on the tee, (up here this is done by the MGA) and its stated distance, as well as all measurements from there on out refer to the center of the green.

But, there are still courses out there whose measurements are taken to the front of the green. One would think that this would be standardized by now, but I think the "front" dimension is largely a throwback to the caddy days when they were relied upon to "fill in the blanks" once past the front edge of the green. Any club that still measures this way is doing so probably more out of exclusivity or that they require players to take a caddy (or perhaps purchase a daily pinsheet).

I think that all measurements should be to the center of the green.


-JP

Do you think it would be safe to assume that the measurements are to the center here in the southeast? I have actually asked this question at my home course and have received both answers as well (new owners).

[JungleJ]

Wherever I've played, the on-course markers have always been to the centre of the green. But usually the yardages given in the Strokesavers (course guidebooks) have been to the front of the green.

[PA PLAYA]

I spent 10 years playing golf in the southeast, and every course I've played while living there had markers that were measured to the center of the green.

The best bet is to ask the starter at the facility. The starter should know that information.

[JimSomebody]

To the center, at the courses I play.

My home course's markers also give yardages to the front and back--not the front and back hole locations, but the front edge and back edge of the green.

[Darth Fader]

Its always been to the centre of the green in this part of the world.

[jwaldrop]

Every course but one that I've played measured to the center of the green. The lone exception measure to the front edge, but I saw nothing in writing on the scorecard or anywhere else to tell you how it was measured...and boy, what a mess that was trying to figure out distances. Of course, until the marshal came around mid-round I had forgotten to ask someone that would know...was paired with a couple of beginners!

What made it tougher was the greens were huge...some as much as 4 clubs difference from front to back!

[Texas Wedge]

I have always played courses where the markers were to the center of the green, but there are many courses I've played where the sprinkler heads have yardages on them and THOSE are to the front of the green. So maybe the answer IS both, depending on how you ask the question. I would expect the 100, 150 and 200 yard markers to be to the center of the green, but wouldn't make that same assumption on any other markers on the course. I hope that helps and doesn't confuse the situation more.

[C-Tech]

All the courses I have played were marked to the center of the green and occasionally, they will carry all three markings on the sprinkler heads, Front, Back, and center.

I bought a yardage book for Starr Pass and it was well done except very confusing with yardages to particular positions from all the different tees (five sets).. sometimes it was hard to tell what was what.

[Dormie]

Speaking of course markers...

Who likes the 150 marker as a pole in the center of the fairway?

I actually think this is one of the BEST features a course can have. Especially on an unfamiliar course. It always seems to help me with the shape of a hole if it's not entirely visible. Knowing where the CENTER of the fairway is at 150 is a real help.

[JPsuff]

Originally Posted by Dormie

Speaking of course markers...

Who likes the 150 marker as a pole in the center of the fairway?

I actually think this is one of the BEST features a course can have. Especially on an unfamiliar course. It always seems to help me with the shape of a hole if it's not entirely visible. Knowing where the CENTER of the fairway is at 150 is a real help.

I think they're great.

In fact, I think they should be included on the list of "Greatest Golf Inventions". I can understand how some people may think they look somewhat "tacky" (I've heard that mentioned from time to time), but from a practicality point of view, I love them.

I can't count how many times, when I'm playing with someone who has never played the course and they ask about the layout of a particular hole, I'll begin my description by saying , "OK, see where the one-fifty marker is?"

A two-dollar piece of PVC pipe stuck into a metal sleeve in the ground and it's one of the best and most identifiable directional and distance aids ever devised.
Sometimes the greatest inventions are the simplest.


-JP

[Dormie]

Originally Posted by JPsuff

I can understand how some people may think they look somewhat "tacky" (I've heard that mentioned from time to time), but from a practicality point of view, I love them.

I've heard folks say this as well. But I've seen them on some of the most upscale courses.

[JPsuff]

Originally Posted by Dormie

I've heard folks say this as well. But I've seen them on some of the most upscale courses.

That's because their usefulness outweighs their tackiness.

It's like those flexible, four or five foot tall red markers that are placed into the ground next to fire hydrants in areas of the country which are prone to heavy snow. When there's no snow on the ground, they look silly, but their value is unmatched in blizzard.


-JP

[C-Tech]

I like the markers at the 150 myself. I also like the blue and red markers for 200 and 100 along the edge of the fairway. I played a course Saturday that did not have the markers, fortunately, it did have the sprinkler heads marked.

One thing about the markers, we got GPS carts at my old home course and realized that a lot of those markers were off by as much as 10 yards plus or minus. The only thing we could figure was that the methods used to originally identify those yardages must have been very inaccurate. Anyone else notice this?

[JPsuff]

Originally Posted by C-Tech

I like the markers at the 150 myself. I also like the blue and red markers for 200 and 100 along the edge of the fairway. I played a course Saturday that did not have the markers, fortunately, it did have the sprinkler heads marked.

One thing about the markers, we got GPS carts at my old home course and realized that a lot of those markers were off by as much as 10 yards plus or minus. The only thing we could figure was that the methods used to originally identify those yardages must have been very inaccurate. Anyone else notice this?

It's more likely that the GPS is off rather than the markers. One of the best kept secrets in the GPS world is that even the best GPS systems are only accurate to within about 5 yards or so and some are off by as much as 10 yards; it's the nature of GPS.

In fact, when GPS was first introduced to the civilian world, it was off by as much as 50 to 100 yards or more. The reason for this was that the government (who at the time operated all the GPS satellites) feared that accuracy would create a threat scenario and they purposely provided "fuzzy" data. But the GPS industry argued that in order to give relevance to their products (specifically as it applied to the golf industry), they had to be more accurate, so the government eventually relented and allowed more accurate data to become available. Since then, many civilian enterprises have actually put their own GPS satellites into orbit, but still GPS today, despite vastly improved accuracy, is still not "spot on" in most cases and a "plus or minus" of 3 to 5 yards is common.


-JP

[Pistol]

Originally Posted by Dormie

Speaking of course markers...

Who likes the 150 marker as a pole in the center of the fairway?

I actually think this is one of the BEST features a course can have. Especially on an unfamiliar course. It always seems to help me with the shape of a hole if it's not entirely visible. Knowing where the CENTER of the fairway is at 150 is a real help.

I HATE them!!! Well that may be a bit strong but nevertheless, I dislike them alot. We got a new course manager a few years back and the first thing he did was put poles in the middle of the fairway at the 100, 150, 200 and 250 (par 5 only). It looks like a slollum course instead of a fairway. I can see having one at the 150, but 3 or 4 are way too many.

[Bigvivec]

I don't like them one bit...distracting, ugly, and gives the subliminal suggestion that I ought to play to that spot...it's like training wheels for a course...why not just paint a big yellow line down the middle of the entire hole so that you know whether to play to the left or right of it!?!?!? Cheapens the design IMO as part of the challenge, especially on a new course, is to figure out landing areas with the visual cues included by the designer...this can include visual trickery through clever designs, making things seem closer or farther away than they actually are...even as a regular on a course you might be confronted by a scenario on a regular basis, suck it up and have to trust your brain rather than your eyes...that and the fact that it can be used as an alignment aid...again, if you use GPS, yardage book or a laser, you know the yardage...but you still have to pick a spot, intermediate targets and so forth...putting a barbershop pole in the middle of the fairway that says "line up to me!!!" cheapens a facet of the game, lessens the impact of a diabolical designer, and is a little like going for a nature hike on a paved trail...kinda takes the teeth out of the experience...

[C-Tech]

Originally Posted by Bigvivec

...why not just paint a big yellow line down the middle of the entire hole so that you know whether to play to the left or right of it!?!?!?

What a GREAT IDEA!!! I'm gonna suggest that to every course superintendent I can find. I think the USGA should make it mandatory!!!

[Diane]

Originally Posted by Bigvivec

suck it up and have to trust your brain rather than your eyes...

BV - I play with a few business associates who only play with caddies and to be honest, they can't do anything without them from estimating distance to choosing a club to reading a putt. I'm not saying you're like that, but how much do you depend on them rather than trusting your brain?

I guess this is a slight threadjack, but hey I was curious so no apologies.