College Football '09

[Wazmankg]

FWIW, "the always known to be miserable Purdue" came within a 2-point conversion of taking Oregon to OT in Eugene. They outgained and outplayed them all day. 2 turnovers returned for TDs and a blocked PAT saved the Ducks. Oregon was very fortunate to get a W. But of course they're "much better now".

[bonknhead]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

Oregon was very fortunate to get a W. But of course they're "much better now".

Yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead and roll your eyes.
We'll just have to see how your Big Ten conference champ fares against Pac 10 champ (Oregon) in the Rose Bowl.

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by bonknhead

Yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead and roll your eyes.
We'll just have to see how your Big Ten conference champ fares against Pac 10 champ (Oregon) in the Rose Bowl.

Too bad we can't just send Purdue again. The neutral site should be good for at least a 3-point swing.

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by bonknhead

Yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead and roll your eyes.
We'll just have to see how your Big Ten conference champ fares against Pac 10 champ (Oregon) in the Rose Bowl.

That will be OSU. Michigan could have easily beaten them today if they had taken care the ball... and Michigan is really bad. I'll probably be rooting for the Ducks anyway.

[bonknhead]

Well, the Ducks are still in the hunt for the Rose Bowl, and have it all but sown up when they squeeked by Arizona tonight in double overtime. Whew!

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

That will be OSU. Michigan could have easily beaten them today if they had taken care the ball... and Michigan is really bad. I'll probably be rooting for the Ducks anyway.

Thanks Waz!

[TwillDog]

Does anyone else find it to be slightly ridiculous that college football has 2 more big weeks ahead with a final regular season week and conference championships to go, and now, before Thanksgiving and WAY before bowl season begins, the Big 10(+1) is done (except Wisconsin and Illinois...)? I know, no bye weeks in the Big 10(+1) - is that a good thing? Maybe adding a bye week would help.... It can't really help much being done 36 days before the conference's FIRST bowl appearance, not to mention the 42 days between the last game of the regular season for Ohio State and their Rose Bowl date on Jan. 1.

All the big teams won... except LSU. They deserved to lose, even though they still had a chance to win the game. Coaching is suspect in Baton Rouge - play calling is poor, defense is out of position to make plays and the end of the game showed a lack of attention to details that are important to winning. A young QB needs to be coached that you can't spike the ball with one second on the clock. That was preceded by a 7 second delay in calling a time out earlier in the drive. I say this often and it rings true - LSU is lucky. They are a nationally prominent program with 2 BCS championships in the last 5 years and are perenially a top caliber program. That puts them in position to recruit top talent every year, and recruiting athletes helps more than just about anything on the college level. Look at Florida - great athletes, lots of speed. Not a great TEAM necessarily, but they have won games simply because they were more physically talented than their opponent. What kid doesn't want to be recruited by Florida? Great weather, nationally prominent program, chance to be national champion every year, plus great exposure. You get at least one win a season just because of the talent differential. However, in most games, you can't just roll your helmet out on the field and expect to win. LSU has played poorly all season. They stepped up for Florida and Alabama, but by and large they have underachieved in respect to the talent level. They were completely outplayed by Ole Miss. Honestly, a couple of timely plays late in the game and then the luck of getting an onside kick gave them their opportunity to win, then poor coaching lost it for them. I really don't see this O-coordinator lasting through the offseason...

Stanford and Wisconsin are other losers of note - those teams are Jekyll and Hyde.

Nothing else surprising... Michigan gave away the game to Ohio State, who still didn't overwhelm me. I thought they played better defense than I've given them credit for, but Michigan sputtered so much it's hard to say if it was Ohio St. or Michigan making them look good. Michigan's D was horrible in this game.

Lots of people are making noise for TCU being worthy of more recognition. I'll support that argument a bit - they have really played pretty well on both sides of the ball, and convincingly beaten the best their conference has to offer. The negatives are not their fault - they play in the Mountain West conference, which isn't very strong overall; and as always, the Floridas, Alabamas, and Texases of the world start higher and there really is no way to pass them without actually beating them or having big success against common opponents.

Not much left of this season but the crying. The top 4 play unranked teams for their regular season finales next week (TCU could hang 70+ points on New Mexico St., unless they recruited that soccer player thugette for football...). Cincy beat a game WVU team (bet Rich Rod is wishing he was there right now - that seat in Michigan is HOT!...) and goes out of conference for Illinois before meeting #9 Pitt in their conference finale. Still gotta respect that team. You have to go back to 1941 to find 6 undefeated teams in one regular season.

[Leaguegolf]

Originally Posted by TwillDog

..... before Thanksgiving and WAY before bowl season begins, the Big 10(+1) is done (except Wisconsin and Illinois...)? I know, no bye weeks in the Big 10(+1) - is that a good thing? Maybe adding a bye week would help.... It can't really help much being done 36 days before the conference's FIRST bowl appearance, not to mention the 42 days between the last game of the regular season for Ohio State and their Rose Bowl date on Jan. 1.

We've had some good weather around here the last week or so but outdoor football in late November/early December for the northern Big 10 teams isn't something fans are clamboring for. Sure, it's a long lay-off until any bowl games but Bowl Season is what it is. I've always contended that if the warm weather schools had to play in the weather some of the northern schools do, they wouldn't be nearly so successful both on the field and in the recruiting arena.

[GolfSavage]

Originally Posted by Leaguegolf

We've had some good weather around here the last week or so but outdoor football in late November/early December for the northern Big 10 teams isn't something fans are clamboring for. Sure, it's a long lay-off until any bowl games but Bowl Season is what it is. I've always contended that if the warm weather schools had to play in the weather some of the northern schools do, they wouldn't be nearly so successful both on the field and in the recruiting arena.

You really think the little bit of cold you get before the season ends is harder on the players than the high temps/high humidity teams like Florida, LSU, etc. play in for the first few weeks of each season? Get real. It ain't like as it gets hotter the guys can remove their helmets and pads to stay cool. It's much tougher to keep hydrated and avoid heat exhaustion and sun stroke down here than it is for northern teams to avoid hypothermia and frostbite.

[stlcard_25]

Originally Posted by GolfSavage

You really think the little bit of cold you get before the season ends is harder on the players than the high temps/high humidity teams like Florida, LSU, etc. play in for the first few weeks of each season? Get real. It ain't like as it gets hotter the guys can remove their helmets and pads to stay cool. It's much tougher to keep hydrated and avoid heat exhaustion and sun stroke down here than it is for northern teams to avoid hypothermia and frostbite.

Practices start well before the season begins, and it's not exactly cool during the summers up here either. That said, I think what League was getting at is that many Southern schools have a built-in recruiting edge simply due to their weather. A kid attending Miami or Florida or USC in November will get to enjoy a good gameday atmosphere there...not to mention some, ahem, good scenery. One visiting Penn State, Michigan or Ohio State is just as likely to see snow piled behind the benches and everyone in attendance piled into their bulky parkas. Now which one do you think is going to have more impact on a 17/18 year old?

[Leaguegolf]

Originally Posted by stlcard_25

Practices start well before the season begins, and it's not exactly cool during the summers up here either. That said, I think what League was getting at is that many Southern schools have a built-in recruiting edge simply due to their weather. A kid attending Miami or Florida or USC in November will get to enjoy a good gameday atmosphere there...not to mention some, ahem, good scenery. One visiting Penn State, Michigan or Ohio State is just as likely to see snow piled behind the benches and everyone in attendance piled into their bulky parkas. Now which one do you think is going to have more impact on a 17/18 year old?

The weather in Ann Arbor and University Park December thru March isn't quite the same as the weather in Miami or Southern California. Let's think about this for a moment. If you're a blue chip recruit, where would you prefer to "play?".....





or




I'm just sayin'..........

[Leaguegolf]

Originally Posted by GolfSavage

You really think the little bit of cold you get before the season ends is harder on the players than the high temps/high humidity teams like Florida, LSU, etc. play in for the first few weeks of each season? Get real. It ain't like as it gets hotter the guys can remove their helmets and pads to stay cool. It's much tougher to keep hydrated and avoid heat exhaustion and sun stroke down here than it is for northern teams to avoid hypothermia and frostbite.

Stlcard_25 already addressed the heat issues. We certainly have them here too. It's the cold at the other end of the season that is the major factor. A bruising running back or a running QB may want to attend a northern school but the "fast track" skill position players know that the worse the weather, the less oportunities there are for them to showcase their skills.

The warm weather schools certainly have an advantage during the lay-off between the end of the season and the bowl games. There's a reason bowl games aren't often played in north of the Mason/Dixon.

[TwillDog]

Super Bowls shouldn't be played up north either, whether you build a new stadium or not - DETROIT!

I've often said that the southern schools regularly get better athletes and are stronger overall than northern schools due to climate. That's mostly outdoor sports (football, baseball, track...) - basketball seems to be equal all over, maybe even worse in the south. Outside of Kentucky, which to a REAL Southerner isn't very south, SEC teams struggle with hoops. Texas has been good, but it's an enormous school with pull of all the best players of Texas. Florida had the 2 championship runs, but now isn't much. There are good programs, but there isn't the same recruiting edge as there is for the outdoor sports. That is why I always get frustrated when someone thinks that Ohio State gets the same athletes that Florida does... there just isn't any doubt. Now, there are kids that grow up in the Ohio area that come out of the womb with garnet and silver on - and if they are recruited by Ohio State and Florida, Florida has little chance of winning that war. But that kid from New Jersey, who's lived through cold winters and has no allegiance to anyone? He might pick Florida State over Ohio State...

The heat is on Les Miles tremendously here for this last game. If it was the first time that clock management or game strategy was questioned, it may not have been a big deal. This has occurred several times - you've heard me question Miles in this forum before. I'm not a conspiracy theorist... but Rich Rod will be leaving Michigan next year if there isn't significant improvement. No one wants that job more than Les Miles. He's making a ton of money down here, and I'm sure that's part of what kept him here - after Saban left to chase money and NFL glory, LSU wasn't going to lose a coach because of money.
Anyway, there was some lowdown speculation that Les Miles may have been dumbing down the game, or just not doing enough to win (he has superior talent, so they are in better position to win, but he and his staff could be "undercoaching") so that when the Michigan job comes up again, he can go home. It could be a genius move - recruit the best talent, so you know you will be successful; just don't coach them up so that they don't win the big games. They go 10-2 annually, play on New Year's day and people are happy. This time they won't go 10-2, and the speculation was the timing of the Michigan news about Rich Rod. I know their people said Rich isn't going anywhere, get over it - that's media speak. Saban swore up and down that he wasn't going to the Dolphins - a week later, he was wearing teal and orange.

I don't know what Miles is doing but for years now I've questioned his true heart. It's easy to be an LSU man when you're coaching for a national championship, or there is no Michigan job available to you. But what happens when that job may be available and you're not playing for a national championship?

[Wazmankg]

Unless Rich Rod shows significant improvement next year he's gone. Many around here would like to see him gone now. He'll need 8-9 wins at least.I just don't see that happening. They lose their stud LB, Brandon Graham, to the NFL and they're atrocious WITH him. He's going to make some team very happy on Sundays, btw. Les Miles may be out of luck if he's thinking about heading this way, though. The rumor is that Jim Harbaugh wants the job.

[TwillDog]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

Unless Rich Rod shows significant improvement next year he's gone. Many around here would like to see him gone now. He'll need 8-9 wins at least.I just don't see that happening. They lose their stud LB, Brandon Graham, to the NFL and they're atrocious WITH him. He's going to make some team very happy on Sundays, btw. Les Miles may be out of luck if he's thinking about heading this way, though. The rumor is that Jim Harbaugh wants the job.

I heard that as well - Harbaugh is a good up and comer and played David this season to the Goliaths of the Pac10. Maybe more upside than Miles and a Michigan alum, so he'll have his heart in the program. If Miles and Harbaugh are interested though, do the folks at Michigan go with a young, untested coach with only 5 years college head coaching experience (granted Stanford is better but the steps are small...), or go with Miles, with not only a wealth of experience, but top ranked college experience - experience at a school that can recruit and land the best talent, plays a tough conference schedule, and, most importantly, has won a national championship... If I'm Michigan, and Miles is available, Miles is my man. You take him and he doesn't work out, Harbaugh is currently what, 41 years old? He'll be around a while... and he'll always want that job.

[TwillDog]

The haves keep on keeping on... Florida easily dispatched of FSU, Alabama nearly got stepped up on by Auburn - that was interesting. Texas got a handful of A&M and I was interested to see them tested. Makes their future matchup with Florida seem more interesting. Nebraska will give them what for in the conference championship, but Texas should take them... this year. Don't sleep on Nebraska next year - Bo Pelini is a good coach and a good recruiter. The other 3 unbeatens, some of whom will finish the season unbeaten as well (HELLO PLAYOFF!) are odd men out. All TCU can hope for is a Nebraska win in the Big 12 championship. Cincinnati really can't help themselves at all; at best they can get to 4. Sorry, Boise State - no win situation; too good for their own good. No one wants to play them non-conference and risk a loss to a lesser conference school, and their conference is weak, so they don't have enough juice to be a BCS buster. Interesting that there are no 1 loss teams...

Due to the way things have fallen, including the Pitt loss this week to West Virginia, I have no choice but to swallow Ohio State being ranked where they are. That is as accurate as it gets, they beat Iowa and Penn St. Georgia Tech's loss to GA dropped them from the one loss ranks and out of that 7 spot to the 10 spot.

My LSU team should have lost to Arkansas, but Arkansas continued to find ways to give us the game. We aren't good, and I think if we don't get to at least a New Year's Day bowl game next year, Miles is gone. After this season, our offensive coordinator should be gone. The offense is stale, predictable and uneven. Plays take too long to get off. We call time outs coming out of TV time outs. Ridiculous. Even though Miles won a national championship recently, since that win he has gone 8-8 in conference play - fine if you are Vanderbilt or one of the other bottom feeders of the conference, not if you won a national championship following the 2007 season. You hear that Michigan?!?! Another .500 type conference season and you can have him...

Prediction is that we may play on New Year's Day against Penn State in Orlando, or maybe the Cotton Bowl. While these are decent bowls, they aren't a BCS bowl, and nothing less than that is expected in Baton Rouge.

That said, Alabama is here to stay for a while, Florida will still be good, but not dominant next season. Alabama is not ready to face Florida and Tebow this year; Tebow will be the X-factor in the SEC title game Saturday; I don't know that we'll see another like Tebow in college football again.

[Leaguegolf]

Originally Posted by TwillDog

That said, Alabama is here to stay for a while, Florida will still be good, but not dominant next season. Alabama is not ready to face Florida and Tebow this year; Tebow will be the X-factor in the SEC title game Saturday; I don't know that we'll see another like Tebow in college football again.

This just brings us back to what I said about the possibility of Tebow being the best college QB of all-time. Love him, or hate him, his career makes a very strong argument.

[TwillDog]

Originally Posted by Leaguegolf

This just brings us back to what I said about the possibility of Tebow being the best college QB of all-time. Love him, or hate him, his career makes a very strong argument.

Yeah, while I don't love his persona so much (I get leery about the aw-shucks feel one minute, the "take that/in your face" the next and the in-between arrogance/sometimes seeming lack of humility, coupled with the Praise the Lord dichotomy), but I can't help but marvel at the talent. He's a one of a kind, once in a lifetime type of player. And no, I don't know that he deserves the Heisman this year (not because he wasn't great, but because there are other great players out there and his numbers, while impressive, aren't head and shoulders above others - though his leadership of that Florida team is unparalleled, and you'll know that next season when they aren't nearly as solid without him), but I still think he's the ultimate player in college football.

[TwillDog]

Let's go bowling!

I'm ready for some big bowls, though I think this bowl season will hold few surprises. Alabama is likely to hurt Texas in the BCS Championship. Texas is lucky just to be there after losing to Nebraska in every way except the final score. Suh will be the best player in college not to win the Heisman. He's a beast... And Mack Brown, congrats on the new money! Deserve it? Not necessarily, but if someone wants to pay him that, take it and run.
The bowl game I'll most want to see will be TCU/Boise St. in the desert. Two undefeateds that feel slighted, one of whom was seconds away from playing in the national championship. LSU takes on Penn State in what will likely be a more interesting game than it should be. I've not hated Penn State, but they don't have the depth of LSU; however, LSU's coaching woes will keep them from pounding Penn State like they should.

If the Florida/Cincy matchup was an uninteresting mismatch before, it will be more a mismatch now since Kelly has left for Notre Dame. At least now it will be more interesting since the Cincy players are ticked off and will come to show they didn't need Kelly anyway. But their undefeated season dreams will come to an end...

I know after Oregon beats Ohio State people will still think Ohio State is better than they really are, but we will know better...

Arizona/Nebraska might be nice too. Watch out for Nebraska next season... As well as Miami. I'm still drinking the U juice...

[stlcard_25]

Originally Posted by TwillDog

LSU takes on Penn State in what will likely be a more interesting game than it should be. I've not hated Penn State, but they don't have the depth of LSU; however, LSU's coaching woes will keep them from pounding Penn State like they should.

Based on what that has happened this season "should" LSU pound Penn State? Is it because LSU plays in the almighty SEC, and Penn State plays in the tiny Big Ten? LSU has hung its hat on losing close to Florida and Alabama (in reality, anyone watching the Florida game knew that LSU was not in the least a threat to score), and has looked impressive in exactly two games...Auburn and Tulane. A 9-3 team that gives up more yards a game than they rack up? That's unheard of. Where is the incredible depth for LSU shown off? We both know that it means nothing unless there are injuries on the offensive side of the ball, and on defense, Penn State has dealt with the loss of all three of their projected starting linebackers (Bowman, Mauti, Lee) without missing a beat (in fact, putting up better numbers than LSU has across the board both offensively and defensively)...and two of those guys are back. LSU has pounded no one, and Penn State has yet to be pounded...doesn't sound like a recipe for a pounding, coaching woes or not.

My own quick analysis of the game is that Penn State needs to be careful of LSU receivers...the secondary is still young and though talented, can occasionally be beaten with the vertical passing game. LSU's down to their 4th stringer at RB, I believe...and with their poor offensive line, I can't see them getting much going on the ground. The other two matchups to watch...Penn State's O-line against LSU's defensive front and the PSU punt return coverage against Holliday. Penn State's gone as the line has gone this year. They were dominated early in the season by Iowa's two stellar DEs, and when they finally were appearing to gel, Heyward and Gibson for Ohio State beat them into submission. Otherwise, they've done a good job leaving Darryl Clark time to throw, and from time to time, opening holes for Royster, Green and Suhey to blast through. As for the special teams...they've been abysmal. Penn State was leading Iowa in the 4th quarter when a blocked punt return for a TD changed that game around, and two long OSU punt returns basically handed the Buckeyes points in their loss. If I were them, I'd just kick out of bounds and keep it from Holliday at all costs. On the flip side, if LSU's offensive line is porous as they've been all season, Penn State is one of the best in the nation at taking advantage at getting to Jefferson. It should be an interesting game, though I'd suspect Paterno will dial back and let his senior-laden team wait on an inexperienced Tiger team to make a mistake. If I had to make a pick now, I'd say this is a 16-13 type game...one way or another. I'll go for the Lions over the Tigers.

As for the rest of the bowl games...I actually like the 'Bama-Texas matchup. Texas has proven they can play defense, and so can the Tide. We may see another low scoring tilt there. Boise-TCU's just a repeat of last season's Holiday Bowl. Entertaining sounding game, but I expect TCU to roll them. I'm liking the sound of the Stanford-Oklahoma matchup in the Sun Bowl. Toby Gerhart against the sound Sooner D should be worth watching that day. And BC-USC in San Franscisco should actually be a solid game...BC has overachieved all year, while USC has definitely fallen flat this season. Interesting to see if the SC players take the game seriously. Oh, and as a (somewhat) FSU fan, I'm hoping to see Bobby Bowden go out on a good note in the Gator Bowl. Shame that it came to this...he built that program from nothing and probably deserved to go out on the note he wanted to. But I suppose such is life in the day of bigtime money in college football.

[TwillDog]

Originally Posted by stlcard_25

Based on what that has happened this season "should" LSU pound Penn State? Is it because LSU plays in the almighty SEC, and Penn State plays in the tiny Big Ten? LSU has hung its hat on losing close to Florida and Alabama (in reality, anyone watching the Florida game knew that LSU was not in the least a threat to score), and has looked impressive in exactly two games...Auburn and Tulane. A 9-3 team that gives up more yards a game than they rack up? That's unheard of. Where is the incredible depth for LSU shown off? We both know that it means nothing unless there are injuries on the offensive side of the ball, and on defense, Penn State has dealt with the loss of all three of their projected starting linebackers (Bowman, Mauti, Lee) without missing a beat (in fact, putting up better numbers than LSU has across the board both offensively and defensively)...and two of those guys are back. LSU has pounded no one, and Penn State has yet to be pounded...doesn't sound like a recipe for a pounding, coaching woes or not.

My own quick analysis of the game is that Penn State needs to be careful of LSU receivers...the secondary is still young and though talented, can occasionally be beaten with the vertical passing game. LSU's down to their 4th stringer at RB, I believe...and with their poor offensive line, I can't see them getting much going on the ground. The other two matchups to watch...Penn State's O-line against LSU's defensive front and the PSU punt return coverage against Holliday. Penn State's gone as the line has gone this year. They were dominated early in the season by Iowa's two stellar DEs, and when they finally were appearing to gel, Heyward and Gibson for Ohio State beat them into submission. Otherwise, they've done a good job leaving Darryl Clark time to throw, and from time to time, opening holes for Royster, Green and Suhey to blast through. As for the special teams...they've been abysmal. Penn State was leading Iowa in the 4th quarter when a blocked punt return for a TD changed that game around, and two long OSU punt returns basically handed the Buckeyes points in their loss. If I were them, I'd just kick out of bounds and keep it from Holliday at all costs. On the flip side, if LSU's offensive line is porous as they've been all season, Penn State is one of the best in the nation at taking advantage at getting to Jefferson. It should be an interesting game, though I'd suspect Paterno will dial back and let his senior-laden team wait on an inexperienced Tiger team to make a mistake. If I had to make a pick now, I'd say this is a 16-13 type game...one way or another. I'll go for the Lions over the Tigers.

As for the rest of the bowl games...I actually like the 'Bama-Texas matchup. Texas has proven they can play defense, and so can the Tide. We may see another low scoring tilt there. Boise-TCU's just a repeat of last season's Holiday Bowl. Entertaining sounding game, but I expect TCU to roll them. I'm liking the sound of the Stanford-Oklahoma matchup in the Sun Bowl. Toby Gerhart against the sound Sooner D should be worth watching that day. And BC-USC in San Franscisco should actually be a solid game...BC has overachieved all year, while USC has definitely fallen flat this season. Interesting to see if the SC players take the game seriously. Oh, and as a (somewhat) FSU fan, I'm hoping to see Bobby Bowden go out on a good note in the Gator Bowl. Shame that it came to this...he built that program from nothing and probably deserved to go out on the note he wanted to. But I suppose such is life in the day of bigtime money in college football.

Cool! A Penn State guy to gab with!
OK, let me back off of my statement of "pounding" Penn State. I gave PSU a lot of credit earlier in the season; I thought they were pretty good. And I've been the FIRST to call out LSU for completely underachieving this season. So "pounding" may be too strong. Handling would be a better term.

I do believe that the SEC, year in and year out, is the best football conference. I feel that the major southern and west coast conferences will normally trump the Big 10(+1) and Big East in football because it's easier to recruit. I think more high school talent lives in southern climes, but regardless its easier to recruit the best players in northern states to come south (unless they are a legacy or were born wearing their school colors...) than vice versa. The bottom line is, IN MY OPINION, the SEC gets top recruits, therefore has better talent and in college football, talent and speed normally trump. The SEC has 3 schools that annually can potentially win a national championship. Currently, no other conference can really say that. In that OPINION lies my belief in the SEC.

That said, LSU has issues. Jefferson isn't even who's supposed to be quarterbacking right now. Had Ryan Perrilloux not been such a man-child, he'd be the QB. Does that mean we didn't get a talented QB in Jefferson? No, but he's be sitting learning right now. Perrilloux was the number one prospect in '05, along with Mark Sanchez. He redshirted in '05, then played as a backup in '06 before being booted from the team for various dumb young man mistakes in the spring of 07. He would have been a 5th year senior starter this season and Jefferson would have had more opportunity to watch and learn as opposed to learning as you play. Benefits to both; some players do better one way than the other. I feel that with QB's, a little sideline time helps. Yes, they are down a few RB's - I don't know if any of them are going to be healthy for the bowl game. But one thing LSU never has a shortage of is skill position players. Their RB's and receivers are always pretty good.

Don't fear Holliday. I have rarely seen him break off that run where his speed becomes an asset. Yes, he's one of the fastest men in the U.S., but that doesn't get him past a line of tacklers. He's been a bit of a disappointment to me. In the run game, he rarely gets the corner turned so his speed is negligible.
You touched on out O-Line, the Achilles heel of this team. They aren't good, but I think a lot of this is the offensive system. I know you see the team underachieve, but I think poor coaching puts them in position to fail. For example, I'm the O-line coach - I look at this line and see they aren't as good as some in the past, and they are young. What can I do schematically to help put them in better positions and hide their weaknesses? Also I go to my O-coordinator and say "this line won't hold a rush for 3 seconds; let's focus our offense on short range passes, screens and the spread to push D-linemen out on the edges and to help open running lanes. Do to others what Arkansas did to us last year, and the year before. Our coaches are stubborn and not willing to play to our strengths and hide our weaknesses. That makes the players look worse than they really are. Same thing on D. The talent is there, they are just not often in the right spots. Their D isn't as good as years past, admittedly.

All this said, in college football, I think speed and talent win - LSU is proof. The "team" was not good, but they have more speed and individual talent than most other SEC schools, and most schools nationwide. I think they have more talent than Penn State, and that is why they should win, whether they have played better as a team or not. Florida was atrocious at times this season; Alabama the same. But they had more talent and speed than their opponents and stayed in the ball game long enough to get that lucky break.

I agree with you on the BSU-TCU game - I expect TCU to win that handily. I think Bowden is a great winner of a coach, but I think they've been trying to force him out since before they brought in Jimbo Fisher, and now especially since Jimbo. I think though that they will begin to move forward with Fisher and will soon be a force in the ACC and nationally. And with Florida getting ready to swoon a little post-Tebow and Miami making a return to the national stage, Florida football will be back to what it was in the late 80's and early 90's.

[stlcard_25]

Our first games today!! Nothing overly exciting, as Fresno State should easily handle Wyoming in their first bowl game in a while, and Rutgers would seem to outclass Central Florida. I'll be tuning in though for some of each.

TD, a couple things on your comments. I do agree with you that year in and year out, the SEC is the best football conference in America. There's a built in advantage to recruiting out of the South, vs. the frozen North. The few Big Ten schools that have managed to pull in big recruiting classes lately are either big name programs (Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State) or programs that seemed to be on the rise (Illinois, Iowa). Meanwhile, it seems Florida, LSU and company bring in a top 10-15 class every single season, and most of the other SEC schools have also had at least one very good class in the last few years.

As for the game itself, I think you'll be surprised to find when the game starts that Penn State is a very talented team in its own right. While maybe they aren't stocked with the 5-star talents that LSU has, they've got many guys who will be playing in the NFL (next year, even) and a good, experienced core. Funnily, many Penn State fans have been griping this year about the coaching staff as well, saying they've squandered a golden opportunity to run the table with an easy schedule and the only two tough games at home (Iowa and OSU-losses). I'm not sure how much I agree with that, though I can say that I do question Joe Paterno's conservative play in some big games. But he's won more than anyone, so he probably knows more than I do, right?

Seems both teams are pretty similar...solid defense, bad offensive lines. Penn State has beaten up on every opponent this season save their two losses, while LSU has played a lot of close games. I'm not sure whether that will benefit anyone if the game is tight in the 4th quarter. I'd love to see the Penn State seniors go out with back to back 11 win seasons...with a very good recruiting class last year, and one of the best in the nation this year, they should be well set up to have some good seasons forthcoming. Looking forward to Jan 1!

[TwillDog]

Originally Posted by stlcard_25

Our first games today!! Nothing overly exciting, as Fresno State should easily handle Wyoming in their first bowl game in a while, and Rutgers would seem to outclass Central Florida. I'll be tuning in though for some of each.

TD, a couple things on your comments. I do agree with you that year in and year out, the SEC is the best football conference in America. There's a built in advantage to recruiting out of the South, vs. the frozen North. The few Big Ten schools that have managed to pull in big recruiting classes lately are either big name programs (Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State) or programs that seemed to be on the rise (Illinois, Iowa). Meanwhile, it seems Florida, LSU and company bring in a top 10-15 class every single season, and most of the other SEC schools have also had at least one very good class in the last few years.

As for the game itself, I think you'll be surprised to find when the game starts that Penn State is a very talented team in its own right. While maybe they aren't stocked with the 5-star talents that LSU has, they've got many guys who will be playing in the NFL (next year, even) and a good, experienced core. Funnily, many Penn State fans have been griping this year about the coaching staff as well, saying they've squandered a golden opportunity to run the table with an easy schedule and the only two tough games at home (Iowa and OSU-losses). I'm not sure how much I agree with that, though I can say that I do question Joe Paterno's conservative play in some big games. But he's won more than anyone, so he probably knows more than I do, right?

Seems both teams are pretty similar...solid defense, bad offensive lines. Penn State has beaten up on every opponent this season save their two losses, while LSU has played a lot of close games. I'm not sure whether that will benefit anyone if the game is tight in the 4th quarter. I'd love to see the Penn State seniors go out with back to back 11 win seasons...with a very good recruiting class last year, and one of the best in the nation this year, they should be well set up to have some good seasons forthcoming. Looking forward to Jan 1!

Actually, I won't be really surprised to see the talent at Penn State, for exactly the reasons you mentioned - the big schools still get some good recruits. Penn State had some down years for a while but for the most part they've been a stalwart for decades. They get enough good recruits to be competetive regularly, and the last few seasons have been particularly good. I looked at their schedule and really thought they had a good chance at winning the conference. As usual I really wanted to see them beat Ohio State (I want everyone to beat Ohio State...) but...

LSU has played a bunch of close games this year. Two things - first, they've played some not real good football; second - the SEC normally has some dogfight games and even teams that are marginal play tough. Penn State has beaten up on people because there is a bigger gap between the haves and have nots in the Big 10. In the SEC, Vanderbilt is a doormat. Other than rebuilding Mississippi State with a new coach, every other team had a winning overall record and is going to a bowl game - 10 of 12 teams. The Big 10 sends 7 of 11 bowling - good, but not what you'd hope for - and 2 of those are .500 teams.

Last year the Big 10 was abysmal in bowl games, winning only 1 game in 7 last season, while the SEC was 6-2 in last year's bowls. The SEC has some tough bowl games this season and I think they'll be challenged to repeat that outcome of only 2 losses. Likewise looking at the matchups, I don't know how much better the Big 10 will fare in their bowl games this year. Tough matchups all around. But that's why they play the games!

[stlcard_25]

Originally Posted by TwillDog

Actually, I won't be really surprised to see the talent at Penn State, for exactly the reasons you mentioned - the big schools still get some good recruits. Penn State had some down years for a while but for the most part they've been a stalwart for decades. They get enough good recruits to be competetive regularly, and the last few seasons have been particularly good. I looked at their schedule and really thought they had a good chance at winning the conference. As usual I really wanted to see them beat Ohio State (I want everyone to beat Ohio State...) but...

LSU has played a bunch of close games this year. Two things - first, they've played some not real good football; second - the SEC normally has some dogfight games and even teams that are marginal play tough. Penn State has beaten up on people because there is a bigger gap between the haves and have nots in the Big 10. In the SEC, Vanderbilt is a doormat. Other than rebuilding Mississippi State with a new coach, every other team had a winning overall record and is going to a bowl game - 10 of 12 teams. The Big 10 sends 7 of 11 bowling - good, but not what you'd hope for - and 2 of those are .500 teams.

Last year the Big 10 was abysmal in bowl games, winning only 1 game in 7 last season, while the SEC was 6-2 in last year's bowls. The SEC has some tough bowl games this season and I think they'll be challenged to repeat that outcome of only 2 losses. Likewise looking at the matchups, I don't know how much better the Big 10 will fare in their bowl games this year. Tough matchups all around. But that's why they play the games!

Well, we are definitely in agreement there then. I root for Ohio State to go down pretty regularly, though I would have liked to see them beat a very down USC this year. The defense just folded under pressure.

As for the matchups this year...I generally agree with you. It doesn't look like too many conferences have an easy slate. I suspect the Big Ten will win 3 or 4 bowl games this season...just a lot of close matchups, IMO. For the same reason, I wouldn't be surprised to see the SEC go 5-5 or 6-4 in their bowl games. I actually find the Pac 10 to be right there with the SEC as the toughest overall conference this year, with the Big Ten third and the Big 12 sitting close to the ACC and Big East as 4th, 5th and 6th best of the major conferences. In fact, the Mountain West conference might have an argument this year to be included in that last bunch, with TCU being as good as anyone, IMO, and BYU and Utah both legit top 25 teams.

[stlcard_25]

I must say, I'm rooting hard for Temple to win this game on ESPN right now against UCLA. Been a long time since the Owls had something to celebrate.

The first of what feels like the "big boy" matchups is tonight in the Champs Sports Bowl. Wisconsin got embarrassed by Florida State in this game last year, so they'll be looking for some redemption. The question is whether they'll have the athletes to match up with Miami. I think they've got the potential to...but it will require flawless execution to take down the Hurricanes. If I had to choose, I'd say Miami wins 28-20.

[Wazmankg]

Well there are still 10 minutes left but the Badgers look a lot better than Miami. The Canes are lucky they aren't getting blown out. Apparently Miami is having trouble with the frigid conditions(49* at game time).

[stlcard_25]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

Well there are still 10 minutes left but the Badgers look a lot better than Miami. The Canes are lucky they aren't getting blown out. Apparently Miami is having trouble with the frigid conditions(49* at game time).

Yes. That was a dominant effort by Wisconsin. They had some key mistakes that saved Miami from being crushed, but overall a solid overall victory for a pretty underrated Badger team all year. I found that funny too...heaters on the sidelines, it was so cold.

[stlcard_25]

How about that thriller on the blue turf in the Humanitarian Bowl? 36 points in the 4th quarter, 3 tds in the last 4 minutes...and two in the last 31 seconds. Freddie Barnes capped one of the best bowl performances you'll see this year (17 catches, 219 yards, 3 tds) with a long touchdown catch, then Idaho marched back down the field thanks to a Hail Mary, scoring with 4 seconds left and converting the 2 point conversion for a 43-42 Vandal win. Such a fun game to watch. Can't wait for the rest of the bowl season!

[Wazmankg]

I had BGSU and that wasn't a catch for the winning TD. They probably would have just scored on the next play, though.

[stlcard_25]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

I had BGSU and that wasn't a catch for the winning TD. They probably would have just scored on the next play, though.

That's part of the reason I'm really glad that I'm not in any pickems this year. I'm getting a tremendous amount of enjoyment just rooting for the better story, or whomever I want...just enjoying the games. Other than Penn State, and on another level, Florida State, I've got no real rooting interests going. Great bowl season so far!

[TwillDog]

Maybe it's because it's minor schools; maybe it's because I have not a clue as to what I've been talking about, but I'm 7-10 through the Sun Bowl... looking at 7-11 through the Texas Bowl if Missouri continues to lose to Navy... horrible. At least if I look objectively, I think I only took one dog in those games, so lots of other people went down with me - not much consolation for stinking up the joint, but there's that...

[stlcard_25]

Imagine how fun tomorrow could be if the old bowl lineup was still in place? Talk about a group of great games!!

Anyway, another good one in the Sun Bowl there. I'm looking forward to the Tennessee-Virginia Tech matchup in the Chick Fil A Bowl. I've read that those two teams have played only 7 times or something crazy in their history. That's basically unacceptable, as close as the two campuses are. Tennesee has been one of the better teams in the country in the second half the the season, after struggling early. Virginia Tech seems to be consistently solid. I'll take the Hokies, 21-17. Should be a good game.

Still more excited for tomorrow.

[stlcard_25]

I must say....pretty pleased with the Big Ten's bowl performance so far. Minnesota made far too many mistakes and handed their game to Iowa State, and Northwestern had some bad breaks and turnovers cost them against Auburn, but each team was in it right to the finish and arguably should have won their game.

Now, for the others...looks like the ball-control, physical game played up north has played pretty well in bowl games thus far, eh? Miami, LSU, Oregon...all went down in smoke. Not only did all three lose, but (from my view...I'm sure I'll be reminded if I'm incorrect by our SEC contingent) Wisconsin, Penn State and Ohio State physically dominated them.

As for today's two games...that field at the Citrus Bowl was pretty pathetic, plain and simple. Thankfully, no one (in today's game...Cooper did on Tuesday though) sustained a serious injury. That said, I was proud of the way Penn State came through in an adverse situation. Clark led a great drive in tough conditions to seal the win, and the offense managed to move it pretty well on LSU's defense all day. I have to give props to the D there in the red zone...man, I thought that the Lions would score several TDs there, but the Tiger defense held every time. Also, Jefferson did a good job against the Penn State defense...reminded me a lot of Terrelle Pryor, but a bit more polished. His receivers did him no favors for a bit of the game. Of course, each team had a few dropped INTs on defense as well. Gotta blame the wet ball. LSU should have a good year next year, with Florida being down. They and Alabama should make the SEC West the class of that conference.

I don't really like the Buckeyes...but they took it to Oregon tonight and won convincingly. In fact, the Big Ten teams' time of possession in the three biggest games they've had so far...Wisconsin 39:15, Penn State 38:21, Ohio State 41:37. They gave up an average of 250 yards a game on defense. That's hard-nosed, Big Ten football for you.

Oh, and one more thing. I'm pretty happy that Bobby Bowden's last game was a W for Florida State. I've followed the Seminoles for a long time too, and while Bobby definitely deserved got a raw deal, I'm glad to see him go out with a win and spare some dignity with at least a winning season.

[TwillDog]

Originally Posted by stlcard_25

I must say....pretty pleased with the Big Ten's bowl performance so far. Minnesota made far too many mistakes and handed their game to Iowa State, and Northwestern had some bad breaks and turnovers cost them against Auburn, but each team was in it right to the finish and arguably should have won their game.

Now, for the others...looks like the ball-control, physical game played up north has played pretty well in bowl games thus far, eh? Miami, LSU, Oregon...all went down in smoke. Not only did all three lose, but (from my view...I'm sure I'll be reminded if I'm incorrect by our SEC contingent) Wisconsin, Penn State and Ohio State physically dominated them.

As for today's two games...that field at the Citrus Bowl was pretty pathetic, plain and simple. Thankfully, no one (in today's game...Cooper did on Tuesday though) sustained a serious injury. That said, I was proud of the way Penn State came through in an adverse situation. Clark led a great drive in tough conditions to seal the win, and the offense managed to move it pretty well on LSU's defense all day. I have to give props to the D there in the red zone...man, I thought that the Lions would score several TDs there, but the Tiger defense held every time. Also, Jefferson did a good job against the Penn State defense...reminded me a lot of Terrelle Pryor, but a bit more polished. His receivers did him no favors for a bit of the game. Of course, each team had a few dropped INTs on defense as well. Gotta blame the wet ball. LSU should have a good year next year, with Florida being down. They and Alabama should make the SEC West the class of that conference.

I don't really like the Buckeyes...but they took it to Oregon tonight and won convincingly. In fact, the Big Ten teams' time of possession in the three biggest games they've had so far...Wisconsin 39:15, Penn State 38:21, Ohio State 41:37. They gave up an average of 250 yards a game on defense. That's hard-nosed, Big Ten football for you.

Oh, and one more thing. I'm pretty happy that Bobby Bowden's last game was a W for Florida State. I've followed the Seminoles for a long time too, and while Bobby definitely deserved got a raw deal, I'm glad to see him go out with a win and spare some dignity with at least a winning season.

Hey, big guy - congrats on Penn State's win over LSU! I agree with you - glad no one got seriously injured on that joke of a field. That was an embarrasment of a field.
While I appreciate your comparison of Jefferson to Pryor, I think Pryor is far superior. Jefferson makes many bad decisions and doesn't always seem to know exactly what to do. He's not "football smart" like a Tim Tebow, who may make a choice that wasn't an option given to him by the coaches because it's the right thing to do, or take it upon himself to make a play. But I also believe that coaching makes a difference and unfortunately for us Tressel probably trumps Miles. We didn't look well prepared. What you saw today from LSU was a microcosm of the entire season. A defense that doesn't give up a lot of points and stands up big when necessary; but also gives away a lot of field early in drives, doesn't do great at getting off the field on third down and misses way too many opportunites at getting turnovers. An offense that has weapons on the corners but is suspect in the backfield, especially with injuries to their biggest RB's and an offensive line that just doesn't seem to always be able to get the job done. Special teams that can be really special at times. And a coaching staff that never seems to prepare a team for games - poor clock management, bad time out usage (losing a time out on a review that shouldn't have been taken), not adequately showing players how to play the game, offensive anemia. Today's offense seemed smoother than it has most of the season, but the play calling was suspect again and the offense sputtered when it needed to make plays. That's simply what it came down to - Penn State and that great QB made more plays than LSU did; they controlled the ball and the clock and made LSU work. LSU as usual hung around thanks to a stingy defense, but when you play a team as talented at Penn State, you have to make plays: you can't wait for them to make a mistake. They are well coached and not going to make many mistakes...

As for the other games, I'm still baffled at a lot of favorites falling. I'm 9-15 on my picks, so no one will be looking to me for college football advice any time soon... I know the bowls are a different animal, but to lose this many is miserable.

As predicted the SEC is having a rough time in bowl games so far at 2-3. Florida can get us to .500. The Big Ten (+1) is already better than last season.

I'm enjoying the few games I've seen bits and pieces of. Hope it keeps up.

[Wazmankg]

Florida & OSU are sure going to be tough for whomever the face in the next round. Ooops, never mind...

[stlcard_25]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

Florida & OSU are sure going to be tough for whomever the face in the next round. Ooops, never mind...

Thank goodness we don't have to deal with that. This has been one of the finest bowl seasons in recent memory in terms of the quality of play we've seen and the number of good games. Some real gems there. It'll be a shame if Congress tries to enforce a playoff. They can't run their own games. Let us have ours in peace.

[Leaguegolf]

I'm with you on this one Stlcard_25. This has been a banner year for bowl games. Great bowl games and the clear #1 and #2 playing for the national championship....so tell me again why the BCS is so bad.

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by Leaguegolf

I'm with you on this one Stlcard_25. This has been a banner year for bowl games. Great bowl games and the clear #1 and #2 playing for the national championship....so tell me again why the BCS is so bad.

Tell it to the winner of the Fiesta Bowl. The fact that well over half of the underdogs have won their bowl games just confirms what I think about deciding the opponents for these games based on peoples perceptions and computer rankings rather than having them prove it on the field. The Big 10 has done ok so far. MSU even hung in there against TTU for most of the game. I was afraid of a blowout there. The other 2 Big 10 losses could have easily gone the other way and the 3 wins were .. well more decisive than the final scores. TTU was clearly the better team tonight. And how about that kid Sheffield ? I don't follow CFB so when they brought in the backup I thought, great MSU may slow em down. But he looked like the 2nd coming of Marino. What an arm.

[Golfaddict]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

Tell it to the winner of the Fiesta Bowl.

Totally agree. You can have an undisputed National Champion with two undefeated teams? I don't think so.

[Leaguegolf]

Originally Posted by Golfaddict

Totally agree. You can have an undisputed National Champion with two undefeated teams? I don't think so.

Yes, you have undefeated teams but the BCS has clearly done what it was designed to do. The BCS has the #1 and #2 teams playing each other. The fact that the 3rd through (insert number here) place teams don't have a shot at a playoff isn't the BCS's fault. It's the fault of the powers that be in NCAA football. Those that scream for a playoff system are misguided in faulting the BCS system for lack of a playoff. Hey, "don't shoot the messenger" when you don't like the message.

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by Leaguegolf

Yes, you have undefeated teams but the BCS has clearly done what it was designed to do. The BCS has the #1 and #2 teams playing each other. The fact that the 3rd through (insert number here) place teams don't have a shot at a playoff isn't the BCS's fault. It's the fault of the powers that be in NCAA football. Those that scream for a playoff system are misguided in faulting the BCS system for lack of a playoff. Hey, "don't shoot the messenger" when you don't like the message.

So the BCS system works because the teams that the BCS has decided are the #1 & #2 teams are going to play each other ? Does that circular logic make anyone else a little bit dizzy ?