Drop it under

[Blue_Arc]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

I started trying to golf when I turned 60. I was a very good tennis player after having been a pretty good handball player. But before that I did nothing athetic since I was a teenager. I was gone to sea on nuclear subs for 20 years--during which there was never enough time off to even think about doing anything athletic. I first had to overcome a knee injury that festered for 20 years, several surgeries and a lot of rehab in order to play any sport.

So I believe the fastest path to good golf for late beginners like me is intensive lessons, clinics, and hard work--

Those among us who succeed have the same personal attributes. Among the most important is persistence. They just don't quit.

larry

That is a solid attitude Larry. No one here has any problem with that. We would welcome your updates on how the swing is working and what you are learning. It's the part where 99% of ALL amateurs that don't follow your advise are losers and hacks and have swings that make you want to puke that riles everyone. If people don't follow your footsteps to golf glory then they are lazy and pathetic. that's what you say and that's why you have this trouble. I'm neither lazy nor am I pathetic. My golf game expectations are just different than yours. I don't expect to swing like a pro and I don't expect to be a scratch golfer. Scratch is the lure but it's the journey to get there that's the excitement. For me anyway. It's large fun and if it stops being that I will quit...but for now...EastLake Country Club would like to welcome Blue Arc to the first tee! Yeah baby! It is on!

[Wazmankg]

Well I admit it. I'm too lazy to do what's necessary to take my game as far as it can go. I finished last season at 11.7 and I know I could be quite a lot better than that with regular lessons and hours of practice each week. How much better, I have no idea. But what time and money I devote to golf I choose to spend playing the game, because that's what I love to do. If I pick up near where I left off last season, I might devote myself to trying to break into single digits just to be able to say that I did it. We'll see. I just don't enjoy practicing and life's too short to be doing things, not required, that I don't enjoy.

[Leaguegolf]

Well put Wazman. As I've mentioned before, there was a time when I spent a vast amount of time and effort to be as good as I could be. Getting there was hard work but I enjoyed it. Staying there was a completely different matter. The game became all work and very little fun. That's when I stopped working so hard. I've since settled into my own personal comfort zone in which I can still work on the things I feel I need to work on AND totally enjoy every second I'm on the course. I'm not the player I once was but I enjoy the game a whole lot more.

[larryrsf]

Originally Posted by Bigvivec

I'm still getting a kick out of this...are you dazzling yet!?!?!?





Personally, I'd learn how to do the thing before I went and drew a world of parallels of competencies...


...enjoy your game, but when you say that you're shooting high 90s in one post with a swing that looks like you'd be lucky to get that, then start to brag about your high level of accomplishment in another...it's just silly...





..we all have our challenges and it isn't a level playing field...but easy on the back patting, you'll wear a hole in the back of your shirt the same as Hogan's trousers...

Let me translate: "its hard, so its ok to try a little bit, then quit!"

Larry

[larryrsf]

Originally Posted by Blue_Arc

That is a solid attitude Larry. No one here has any problem with that. We would welcome your updates on how the swing is working and what you are learning. It's the part where 99% of ALL amateurs that don't follow your advise are losers and hacks and have swings that make you want to puke that riles everyone. If people don't follow your footsteps to golf glory then they are lazy and pathetic. that's what you say and that's why you have this trouble. I'm neither lazy nor am I pathetic. My golf game expectations are just different than yours. I don't expect to swing like a pro and I don't expect to be a scratch golfer. Scratch is the lure but it's the journey to get there that's the excitement. For me anyway. It's large fun and if it stops being that I will quit...but for now...EastLake Country Club would like to welcome Blue Arc to the first tee! Yeah baby! It is on!

Hi Blue,

Of course you are right. Amateur golf is just another silly game-- and no more important than tennis, pool, horseshoes, sailing, dressage horse training, and a dozens others--many of which the participants spend hundreds of times more than golfers and are extremely serious about their results.

But this forum and this thread in particular is about the details involved in developing a good golf swing. So that narrows and focuses the discussion down to what it takes to become consistent enough to score. So it seems nonsensical to me for someone to actively participate here while saying they are NOT willing to work at it. What is that about? Just folks with nothing else to do being perverse?

Larry

[Bigvivec]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

Hi Blue,

Of course you are right. Amateur golf is just another silly game-- and no more important than tennis, pool, horseshoes, sailing, dressage horse training, and a dozens others--many of which the participants spend hundreds of times more than golfers and are extremely serious about their results.

But this forum and this thread in particular is about the details involved in developing a good golf swing. So that narrows and focuses the discussion down to what it takes to become consistent enough to score. So it seems nonsensical to me for someone to actively participate here while saying they are NOT willing to work at it. What is that about? Just folks with nothing else to do being perverse?

Larry

You're the only guy on here who calls golf a silly game and claims he's not going to devote more than an hour a day...old Arc gets out the course quite often...


Nonsensical as in nonsense is listening to an old coot contradict themselves from page to page and and self importantly prattle on about what it takes to be a scratch player from the point of view of a 20+ handicapper...




...THAT'S nonsensical!!!!

[Blue_Arc]

Did he call me Old Arc...

[Leaguegolf]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

But this forum and this thread in particular is about the details involved in developing a good golf swing. So that narrows and focuses the discussion down to what it takes to become consistent enough to score.

Obviously your definition of a good golf swing is different than most. A good golf swing is any repeatable swing that delivers the ball on target the majority of the time. In other words.....A good golf swing doesn't have to look like Tiger Woods'.

Wasn't it you that said you didn't care about scoring and that all that mattered to you was hitting fairways and greens? There are plenty of us amateurs that can score well without possessing a textbook swing.

[poe4soul]

Originally Posted by Ty_Webb

As has been discussed at length before, no they weren't. The number of people who have got to scratch in less than a year can be counted on the thumbs of one foot. Greg Norman was playing scratch in two years after starting and he's one of the most naturally talented people on the face of the planet. It took me 8 years to hit scratch from when I started (at 14). I played quite a bit to do it and I have a good eye for a ball. I don't for a second believe that any of your friends' kids were scratch in a year. That is simply false.

Unless of course you mean playing scratch like you're a 7. Then that's very believable.

I picked up on the same line.

I play with two ex-college scholarship players that are now 27 and 29. They both say they were between a 0 and and a 1 their senior years in high school. One was a son of a club fitter the other a golf pro brat. they played golf their entire life. The club fitter son took 2 all state his senior year - hung over the story goes. These are not run of the mill players and beat me regularly (not like this is a big feat). They were not scratch or below players until they were in college and quickly dropped out of that range within a few years of daily practice. they are now a 2 and a 4. It takes consistent practice to sustain this level.

There is so, so, so many things that come to being a scratch player that anyone with only a year of learning could only dream of being one. One of the hardest is course management. Not to mention distance control, working the ball, and of course putting; to be a true scratch player your shooting below par some times. Putting is the crazy part. both of the guys I play with can get on streaks with the flat stick that will turn good players heads. Played a round were one made a 80 foot putt, 2 30-40 foot putts, and a handful of 10-20 foot putts. Shot a 68 with one chip in. I shot an 80 and felt like I had been beat like a rented mule.

To be fair larrrySRF didn't qualify that they weren't at Putt Putt.

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by poe4soul

I picked up on the same line.

There is so, so, so many things that come to being a scratch player that anyone with only a year of learning could only dream of being one. One of the hardest is course management. Not to mention distance control, working the ball, and of course putting; to be a true scratch player your shooting below par some times. Putting is the crazy part.

I had the same thought, but deleted my reply earlier. I figured there are enough people here willing to debate Larry's pearls of wisdom. Someone getting to scratch in a year would have to be a 1 in a million shot if that. First they'd have to be a natural and then there are just so many aspects of the game to master to get that low... in a year ?? ... they'd have to practice for hours daily under the eye of a good teacher. I call bovine waste on that one.

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

I had the same thought, but deleted my reply earlier. I figured there are enough people here willing to debate Larry's pearls of wisdom. Someone getting to scratch in a year would have to be a 1 in a million shot if that. First they'd have to be a natural and then there are just so many aspects of the game to master to get that low... in a year ?? ... they'd have to practice for hours daily under the eye of a good teacher. I call bovine waste on that one.

Even in the world of internet discussion forum exaggerations, that one really takes the cake.

[Leaguegolf]

I remember Larryrsf mentioning that same thing in the past. No one believed it then either.

[larryrsf]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

I had the same thought, but deleted my reply earlier. I figured there are enough people here willing to debate Larry's pearls of wisdom. Someone getting to scratch in a year would have to be a 1 in a million shot if that. First they'd have to be a natural and then there are just so many aspects of the game to master to get that low... in a year ?? ... they'd have to practice for hours daily under the eye of a good teacher. I call bovine waste on that one.

Look, I have no aspirations to be a scratch golfer, to shoot par most times out. I would not maintain that level if I ever attained it. We all know those guys almost live on a golf course. That is not for me. I have a life and it is NOT "playing" anything. I play golf rounds only 3 times a typical month, more on vacations when we go to Hawaii or Palm Springs. I hate to practice putting even though I have my own green. So my realistic aspirations are to hit fairways and greens, to be able to take days or weeks off and come out and play one ball all the way around. I will score around 80 from the blue tees. Good enough. When I am ready, I will bet nearly anyone, even a pro, if they'll give me 5 a side.

So I am working to establish solid fundamentals. My goal is to always make a good grip, always setup correctly, always make a correct backswing, and usually reach a correct top position. From there every teaching pro and every book says their work is done-- A correct and productive downswing just flows from a correct top position. (accordingly nearly all golf lessons are about grip, setup, backswing)

So see ya out there.

Larry

[Bigvivec]

Aspire to shoot 80!?!??! I thought you were a 7.7 handicap...at least that's what you're putting on your homepage...


...Ha!...




Larry, I shoot 80 and I want to throw my clubs in the lake...



...glad that you told me how I could "dazzle" my friends though...



...stop reading those books...nothing is done until you hit the ball and as two wildly different backswing examples and release techniques of Adam Scott and Jim Furyk demonstrate, there IS no correct backswing and the truth is at impact...




...once you learn a little more and get some practical experiences under your belt all of this will make more sense...keep plugging away

[Leaguegolf]

BigV........by the time larry finally realizes what we've been trying to tell him, it will be too late for him to really enjoy the game as it's meant to be played by guys like him and his friends. It took fatherhood to snap me out of my technical phase and bring me into my current enjoy the game phase. Larry's a technician through and through and he's just wired different from those of us that play for the love of the game. Sadly for him, he may never discover what he's missing.

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by Leaguegolf

Larry's a technician through and through and he's just wired different from those of us that play for the love of the game. Sadly for him, he may never discover what he's missing.

He likes what he likes... different strokes. It's his disdain for the rest of us that's annoying (ie; those of us who understand why the game was invented in the first place - IT'S FUN !).

[larryrsf]

Originally Posted by Leaguegolf

BigV........by the time larry finally realizes what we've been trying to tell him

Fellas, since I don't listen to the guy in the driving range booth next to me, I don't listen to anyone here--UNLESS then can cite a teaching credential-- a PGA pro-- who has usually been taught how to teach. You shouldn't either.

Larry

[Leaguegolf]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

Fellas, since I don't listen to the guy in the driving range booth next to me, I don't listen to anyone here--UNLESS then can cite a teaching credential-- a PGA pro-- who has usually been taught how to teach. You shouldn't either.

I don't give advice on the golf swing Larry. I never have. My advice relates more to matters of the heart when it comes to golf. Someone once told me "Love the game and the game will love you back." That just may be the single best piece of golf advice I've ever been given.

You don't have to listen to anyone here. Actually that would probably make it a wash as far as listening goes but hopefully, like Dorothy's Tin Man, someday you will find a heart for the game to go along with all your technical and mechanical beliefs you put all your stock in.

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

Fellas, since I don't listen to the guy in the driving range booth next to me, I don't listen to anyone here--UNLESS then can cite a teaching credential-- a PGA pro-- who has usually been taught how to teach. You shouldn't either.

Larry

So you don't listen to anything anyone here says and you just told everyone here that they shouldn't listen to a word that you say, so what on earth are you doing here?

[Leaguegolf]

Originally Posted by Ty_Webb

So you don't listen to anything anyone here says and you just told everyone here that they shouldn't listen to a word that you say, so what on earth are you doing here?

That's an easy one Ty. Larry is here for entertainment purposes only. Listener beware.

[larryrsf]

Originally Posted by Leaguegolf

That's an easy one Ty. Larry is here for entertainment purposes only. Listener beware.

The only thing that applies for absolutely sure is "take a lesson."

That said, I conclude that most participate in these forums BECAUSE they refuse to take lessons. In fact there is no better way to elicit personal hostility than to suggest lessons or cite a particular book--

Those who embark on a series of lessons quickly see that they have set themselves apart.

So very likely those who develop a decent repeating golf swing become bored with these forums. They're gone. Why would they want to read the same old questions and see the same old rationalizations for failing to do what is necessary??

The analogy to learning to play a musical instrument holds. Those who work hard and become decent players have little patience with those who won't do the work. They really have little in common to talk about.

larry

[Leaguegolf]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

The only thing that applies for absolutely sure is "take a lesson."

That said, I conclude that most participate in these forums BECAUSE they refuse to take lessons. In fact there is no better way to elicit personal hostility than to suggest lessons or cite a particular book--

Again, not all of your conclusions are correct......and you've demonstrated plenty of better ways.

Originally Posted by larryrsf

Those who embark on a series of lessons quickly see that they have set themselves apart. So very likely those who develop a decent repeating golf swing become bored with these forums. They're gone. Why would they want to read the same old questions and see the same old rationalizations for failing to do what is necessary??

And I was just beginning to think that golf was shedding it's elitist image.

Originally Posted by larryrsf

Those who work hard and become decent players have little patience with those who won't do the work. They really have little in common to talk about.

I bet you're a real treat to play golf with. Hopefully, one day you will realize that golf is more than lessons and books and those that love the game will always have something in common.

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

In fact there is no better way to elicit personal hostility than to suggest lessons or cite a particular book--

Actually, I don't think you'll find anyone who has disagreed with you when you suggest taking lessons. The thing that you do that elicits personal hostility is suggesting that your most recent lesson is the one thing that everyone needs to be working on. As has been pointed out to you extensively, you're wrong.

[larryrsf]

So where are those who are ALSO in the midst of a current course of serious lessons? Preganant pause.............! NOBODY else is doing what I am doing.

I can only conclude that my experience taking lessons and doing the drills is as lonely as the klutzy kid working to master the guitar or violin, etc.

See ya out there.

Larry

[Bigvivec]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

So where are those who are ALSO in the midst of a current course of serious lessons? Preganant pause.............! NOBODY else is doing what I am doing.

I can only conclude that my experience taking lessons and doing the drills is as lonely as the klutzy kid working to master the guitar or violin, etc.

See ya out there.

Larry

I've got a whole thread on my recent course of serious lessons from a certified pga professional / part time tour player...you posted in it BTW...











...you're right about no one making pvc contraptions and hitting wiffle balls on their deck with a slow motion full swing with a putter...


...NO ONE is doing that...pretty comfortable about asserting that...


It's been written before, if it's lesson merit badges you want, Ty has said he has had in the neighborhood of 150, and I get anything from one to 4 a week of various durations...so there's two for you...





Something else that painfully obvious is that for all of your completed series and programs, you still struggle with the basic moves of good golf...all that hooey about lessons setting a serious amateur apart is just that...in the end, you can be led to water, but you've got to figure out the feels then get it done...all the TPI certs in the world aren't going break 90 or 100 for you...sorry bud...



That deck looks suspiciously like a well worn practice area there Larry...what happened to the only one hour a week spent on golf? Painful and a little embarrassing to look at the actual hours invested I'll bet and realize that nothing has been realized...but honestly Larry, with your shift changing approach that takes the flavor of the week then moves on to something new without ever following through properly will never bring you any closer to your goals...





If only just taking lessons in something or reading a book about it equated proficency in the subject...that would make things easy wouldn't it!?!?!? That there are guys like Ty's friend out there who can naturally pick up the game and become plus handicaps without the "benefit" of the TPIs of the world has really got to burn your backside huh Larr!?!?

[larryrsf]

Originally Posted by Bigvivec

I've got a whole thread on my recent course of serious lessons from a certified pga professional / part time tour player...you posted in it BTW...

The FACT that nobody seems to have recognized the universal swing steps such as "flatten the shaft" and "the squat" verifies my conclusion. You don't know what I was talking about. If you had taken such a series and reached a level beyond grip and setup, you would have been taught how to bring the clubhead from the inside. Instead of ridiculing these things, you would have agreed...

You can read this stuff in "Swing Like a Pro." I hope every PGA pro teaches it. I see swing teachers on The Golf Channel mentioning these important concepts.

Larry

[Ty_Webb]

Larry, Bigv plays the game better than you could ever dream of playing. If you had any interest whatsoever in anything anyone else says, then you would know that. Rarely have I seen a post that more ably demonstrates that the poster doesn't have a clue what they're talking about than this one. Thanks though. That one brought a tear to my eye. I don't think there's really much more to say about that.

Originally Posted by larryrsf

The FACT that nobody seems to have recognized the universal swing steps such as "flatten the shaft" and "the squat" verifies my conclusion. You don't know what I was talking about. If you had taken such a series and reached a level beyond grip and setup, you would have been taught how to bring the clubhead from the inside. Instead of ridiculing these things, you would have agreed...

You can read this stuff in "Swing Like a Pro." I hope every PGA pro teaches it. I see swing teachers on The Golf Channel mentioning these important concepts.

Larry

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

The FACT that nobody seems to have recognized the universal swing steps such as "flatten the shaft" and "the squat" verifies my conclusion. You don't know what I was talking about. If you had taken such a series and reached a level beyond grip and setup, you would have been taught how to bring the clubhead from the inside. Instead of ridiculing these things, you would have agreed...

You can read this stuff in "Swing Like a Pro." I hope every PGA pro teaches it. I see swing teachers on The Golf Channel mentioning these important concepts.

Larry

Larry, "the squat" isn't ringing a bell, though it does bring to mind a couple of comments I'll keep to myself. I'm sure I read your take on whatever it is. But "flatten the shaft" is by no means a "universally recognized swing step". It's only applicable to players with a 2 plane swing. We've been through this before in another thread. Several videos of touring pros who have a one plane swing were posted, including Tiger Woods. They don't "flatten the shaft" or "drop it under" or anything of the sort.

[Blue_Arc]

I remember the squat. There's been so many but I recall that instruction.

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

Larry, "the squat" isn't ringing a bell, though it does bring to mind a couple of comments I'll keep to myself. I'm sure I read your take on whatever it is. But "flatten the shaft" is by no means a "universally recognized swing step". It's only applicable to players with a 2 plane swing. We've been through this before in another thread. Several videos of touring pros who have a one plane swing were posted, including Tiger Woods. They don't "flatten the shaft" or "drop it under" or anything of the sort.

Nice try Waz, but I really don't think there's much point in trying to explain this stuff to Larry. He clearly has the comprehension skills of a five year old. Nor is he even polite enough to acknowledge other people's contributions. This is not a good combination. Certainly not one that is conducive to constructive conversation.

[larryrsf]

hopeless.

Larry

[larryrsf]

Originally Posted by Ty_Webb

Nice try Waz, but I really don't think there's much point in trying to explain this stuff to Larry. He clearly has the comprehension skills of a five year old. Nor is he even polite enough to acknowledge other people's contributions. This is not a good combination. Certainly not one that is conducive to constructive conversation.

How "constructive" can a conversation between amateurs be--when one has been given specific instruction that is almost verbatim from the best golf swing books-- and the others haven't had that instruction--and WILL NOT BOTHER to read the cited references?

Page 139--SLAP. Fred Griiffin demonstrates in photographs exactly what I work on with my PVC trainer. I take it back on plane and get the clubshaft vertical--and then I lay the shaft back as I step on my front leg and "squat" a little. That points the butt of the club toward the target line and prepares me to downswing "under" rather than OVER as most amateurs do when they start down with shoulders leading their hips-- no weight shift.

BTW, this is NOT a "two plane" swing, I do NOT manipulate the club shaft with wrists or by rolling my forearms. The correct golf swing is on a single plane. BTW, throughout SLAP, which is the compilation of 100 top pro golfer swings, there is NO MENTION of a "two plane" golf swing.

When we all get on the same page, we can have a "constructive" conversation.


Larry

[radagast]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

How "constructive" can a conversation between amateurs be--when one has been given specific instruction that is almost verbatim from the best golf swing books-- and the others haven't had that instruction--and WILL NOT BOTHER to read the cited references?

Page 139--SLAP. Fred Griiffin demonstrates in photographs exactly what I work on with my PVC trainer. I take it back on plane and get the clubshaft vertical--and then I lay the shaft back as I step on my front leg and "squat" a little. That points the butt of the club toward the target line and prepares me to downswing "under" rather than OVER as most amateurs do when they start down with shoulders leading their hips-- no weight shift.

BTW, this is NOT a "two plane" swing, I do NOT manipulate the club shaft with wrists or by rolling my forearms. The correct golf swing is on a single plane. BTW, throughout SLAP, which is the compilation of 100 top pro golfer swings, there is NO MENTION of a "two plane" golf swing.

When we all get on the same page, we can have a "constructive" conversation.

Ummmm...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the swing were on the same plane going up and coming back down, wouldn't it take the same path?

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

How "constructive" can a conversation between amateurs be--when one has been given specific instruction that is almost verbatim from the best golf swing books-- and the others haven't had that instruction--and WILL NOT BOTHER to read the cited references?

Page 139--SLAP. Fred Griiffin demonstrates in photographs exactly what I work on with my PVC trainer. I take it back on plane and get the clubshaft vertical--and then I lay the shaft back as I step on my front leg and "squat" a little. That points the butt of the club toward the target line and prepares me to downswing "under" rather than OVER as most amateurs do when they start down with shoulders leading their hips-- no weight shift.

BTW, this is NOT a "two plane" swing, I do NOT manipulate the club shaft with wrists or by rolling my forearms. The correct golf swing is on a single plane. BTW, throughout SLAP, which is the compilation of 100 top pro golfer swings, there is NO MENTION of a "two plane" golf swing.

When we all get on the same page, we can have a "constructive" conversation.


Larry

Larry,

The conversation can be constructive when people listen to what others say. You sit there and preach at us because we won't read a book that's almost as old as you, yet you won't even read our posts. That fact is as clear as day. Although I guess it might just be a total lack of comprehension. I can't think how else someone could think that flatten the shaft didn't imply that the swing must be happening on more than one plane. The one after the "flatten the shaft" being, by definition, flatter than the one before that. Had you bothered to read anything anyone else has said, you would know that the essence of the two plane swing is that flattening of the shaft. The one plane swing is, by definition, carried out all on one plane, where the downswing and the backswing have the same plane with no "flattening" of the shaft. And you expect us to believe you're a nuclear physicist? Bizarre.

[Blue_Arc]

I don't get the part about vertical. I saw in the removed video you did take the shaft vertical. That effectively took the club shaft off the plane. If you take the club back outside the pipe and down swing inside the pipe then you have at least 2 swing planes. From the video I saw you may have had more than that...

[larryrsf]

you won't even read our posts."

Nope, and I don't listen the struggling amateur beside me on the range. I listen ONLY to a qualified teaching pro, himself a +++handicap tournament player. He has my credibility because he teaches EXACTLY what the best golf swing books say. He can grab a club and demonstrate what he teaches. Why on Earth should I listen to you?

This is a waste of time. If you want to improve, get the book-- borrow if from a library if you're too cheap, and read it. On page 139 you will see them illustrating the essence of the advanced golf swing-- drop it under. That was what the ONLY teaching aid Jack Nicklaus endorsed-- the "Inside Approach."

If you don't start your downswing with hips, you WILL start it with shoulders-- and nobody who swings OTT can be consistent.

Larry

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

you won't even read our posts."

Nope, and I don't listen the struggling amateur beside me on the range. I listen ONLY to a qualified teaching pro, himself a +++handicap tournament player. He has my credibility because he teaches EXACTLY what the best golf swing books say. He can grab a club and demonstrate what he teaches. Why on Earth should I listen to you?

This is a waste of time. If you want to improve, get the book-- borrow if from a library if you're too cheap, and read it. On page 139 you will see them illustrating the essence of the advanced golf swing-- drop it under. That was what the ONLY teaching aid Jack Nicklaus endorsed-- the "Inside Approach."

If you don't start your downswing with hips, you WILL start it with shoulders-- and nobody who swings OTT can be consistent.

Larry

So, once again, why are you here? Your credibility is zero. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, so no one listens to you. At the same time, you don't listen to anyone else, so what's the point? If you spent half the time you spend on here actually practising, you might have achieved your goals (ha! hahaha - I kill me sometimes).

Good luck... (though I fear wishing you luck is as futile as trying to explain things to you)

[petermo]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

I listen ONLY to a qualified teaching pro, himself a +++handicap tournament player.

Originally Posted by larryrsf

He has my credibility because he teaches EXACTLY what the best golf swing books say. He can grab a club and demonstrate what he teaches. Why on Earth should I listen to you?

Larry

"Those who CAN do, those who CAN'T teach" - why on Earth would a tournament player waste his time teaching (or trying, to teach) you? If he's that good he should be earning real money instead of messing around with argumentative, close minded, arrogant retirees. BTW pros don't have "handicaps" - only your much despised amateurs who are beneath your dignity to notice, do.

[poe4soul]

Originally Posted by petermo

"Those who CAN do, those who CAN'T teach" - why on Earth would a tournament player waste his time teaching (or trying, to teach) you? If he's that good he should be earning real money instead of messing around with argumentative, close minded, arrogant retirees. BTW pros don't have "handicaps" - only your much despised amateurs who are beneath your dignity to notice, do.

I can think of 250 reasons per hour why they would teach Larry. I've taken lessons, twice in fact, from pro who have played on the tour. Both did not have what it takes to be successful but they were there. Both of them claim it's the putter that kept them from being above the cut line consistently.

[Blue_Arc]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

you won't even read our posts."

Nope, and I don't listen the struggling amateur beside me on the range.

Why on Earth should I listen to you?

This is a waste of time. If you want to improve, get the book

Larry

Listen to me Larry. A struggling amateur who's having the time of his life

If YOU want to improve...get in the rounds. You have to shoot it at a hole before it will ever stand a chance of going in one. You want fairways and greens....???....there ain't any at the range.