The New Stack & Tilt Swing

[Wazmankg]

While I'm not totally scrapping it, I've gone back to a more conventional setup. I just couldn't get rid of a bad case of the "lefts" when using it. Big pull-hooks. I dropped it after the first couple of holes today (and one pull-hook into a hazard) and went back to a more balanced setup. We were playing team skins and our opponents were hitting greens. I think my time using the S&T has made me more conscious of getting my weight left sooner and finishing strong and balanced, though. I've had this swing for 40+ years and S&T was just too different, though I hope to take away some of it's main principles (finish to a firm left side). My long game isn't really my problem anyway. My pitching & chipping has really been coming around lately, though. I shot an 83(a season best). I missed about 6 putts between 5-8' (made 1) or it really could've been a special round for me. I don't want to put anyone off of the S&T though, because it definitely has merit and I'll keep watching this space.

[Game Face]

Cool Waz! You got something positive out of the S&T! You succeeded!

[Game Face]

My son went back to his original swing with his driver, fw's and long irons. He's using the S&T for the short irons and wedges. He's gotten completely messed up with the long irons. Couldn't locate/feel the right plane. He was hooking bad.

His new swing was coming along very well, then a week ago he completely lost it. Picked a bad time too. It started on the first day of a five day golf trip. After the second round (our first day) of utter disbelief in his swing he went back to his original swing. It took a couple holes to find the old swing.


I'm still practicing the S&T. It's working pretty well. If I can stay on axis with any of the clubs I would be more consistent.

[Bigvivec]

Originally Posted by Game Face

My son went back to his original swing with his driver, fw's and long irons. He's using the S&T for the short irons and wedges. He's gotten completely messed up with the long irons. Couldn't locate/feel the right plane. He was hooking bad.

His new swing was coming along very well, then a week ago he completely lost it. Picked a bad time too. It started on the first day of a five day golf trip. After the second round (our first day) of utter disbelief in his swing he went back to his original swing. It took a couple holes to find the old swing.


I'm still practicing the S&T. It's working pretty well. If I can stay on axis with any of the clubs I would be more consistent.

The couple of range sessions that I tried it out of curiosity (or a variation thereof as I can't say that I can really duplicate anything that I only read about) I couldn't hit a wood (driver, hybrid, 3wood) with that swing at all...irons were good but not terribly strong, but it was the woods that I found this swing to be impossible...

[Game Face]

I'm just the opposite... my woods, and especially the driver work with the S&T. The mid irons is where I have the most trouble, and the short irons and wedges, imo, were meant for the S&T. I have no trouble with the long irons... because I don't use them.

[xnavyct]

Anybody else read the "Stack and Tilt Part 2" in this months' GD? It's got a nice page with the 'basics' of the swing on one page, plus it also has some dissenting thoughts from some instructors, including Jim McClean and Butch Harmon. They do mention that the article drew as many letters as GD has ever gotten on an instruction article. I beleive that, just look at how many posts it got right here on GRW...

I'm still working on it, my problem has always been leaving my weight shifted on my back (left) leg and not shifting forward, hitting thin shots. This swing takes 'that' problem out of the loop for me. I'm just trying to keep working on it, I haven't been able to play much over the past 5 weeks - I'd say the S+T is a 'work in progress' for me.

[deronsizemore]

If you all want to learn more about the stack and tilt swing (although from what I understand, GD coined that term as Andy Plummer supposedly never calls it that) you can check out this forum and ask questions: Haddix Golf Swing Forum

The pro, DJ Haddix will answer questions based on the S&T. He a given me a few lessons here in Lexington before and he knows his stuff. If I'm not mistaken he actually learned the S&T from Andy (but don't quote me on that).

[Badbub45]

Originally Posted by xnavyct

Anybody else read the "Stack and Tilt Part 2" in this months' GD? It's got a nice page with the 'basics' of the swing on one page, plus it also has some dissenting thoughts from some instructors, including Jim McClean and Butch Harmon. They do mention that the article drew as many letters as GD has ever gotten on an instruction article. I beleive that, just look at how many posts it got right here on GRW...

I'm still working on it, my problem has always been leaving my weight shifted on my back (left) leg and not shifting forward, hitting thin shots. This swing takes 'that' problem out of the loop for me. I'm just trying to keep working on it, I haven't been able to play much over the past 5 weeks - I'd say the S+T is a 'work in progress' for me.

Yea I saw the new article and it opened up a whole new door for me. I went out to the range not even thinking about the stack and tilt, and was hitting really bad shots. I made a last ditch effort and pulled up the stack and tilt out of the back of my head, and went over what it said to do in article 2. I hit some of the best shots I have ever hit in a while.

[Badbub45]

Ok I went to the range and was just going to work on the stack and tilt. I grabbed a club out of my bag and didn't pay attention to what it was. I started off hitting balls using the stack and tilt, and was sending the ball well over 150. I then went to put it back in the bag and thought it was a 7 iron. Turns out it was an 8. Im going to keep on working on this swing because there are some kinks that need to be worked out.

[larryrsf]

Originally Posted by BrianT.

When I was reading the article in Golf Digest it was almost like I was looking at my own swing. I think that I just naturally tend to have this kind of swing. I think it does keep your irons crisp, because I've always had a lot of spin, but that does not help on the driver, so I have had to adapt a different swing for the driver, which is more like the modern swing. It works.

Hi all,

Well since nearly all of us (amateurs) are perpetually "late" when we swing from a normal stance as we endeavor to weight our back foot during the backswing and then unweight it to clear our hips before impact, this is a sensible compromise.

The only difference I can see is that with the "stack and tilt" swing we quit loading the back foot during the backswing. That leaves at least half the weight on our front foot as we turn around a stable center which does not move back over our back leg.

IF you "fire the hips" to initiate the downswing, this is pretty much what Bobby Jones did-- and boy does it work!!! He played from a narrow stance and let his hips lead his backswing and his downswing, not much weight shift, but he aggressively cleared his hips and kept the clubhead inside the target line. He said he felt the stretching of the big lateral and oblique muscles in his back --and of course that is exactly what the best golfers do today during the "transition" weight shift move. He won many of the regular long drive contests that were held before most amateur tournaments in his day-- so he could generate some serious clubhead speed-- with wood shaft clubs, no leverage possible.

Jack Nicklaus says in his introduction to the newly available VHS tapes of Bobby Jones original Hollywood sessions-- that amateurs would be better off to imitate much of Bobby Jones's swing than "modern teaching." Jack thinks that much of the position analysis, etc. is bogus-- and the long way for beginners to become competent amateur golfers. I agree. The Bobby Jones VHS tapes are available on Amazon and in nearly every big golf equipment outlet store. Take a look.


Larry

[Game Face]

I'm watching the late night version of the 2nd Round of the Mercedes-Benz Championship.

Mike Weir and Aaron Baddeley are paired up for the day.
It's pretty cool watching a lefty and a righty using the Stack & Tilt swing.

Those two guys are now really good! They're both playing better than they ever have.

[Bigvivec]

Originally Posted by Game Face

I'm watching the late night version of the 2nd Round of the Mercedes-Benz Championship.

Mike Weir and Aaron Baddeley are paired up for the day.
It's pretty cool watching a lefty and a righty using the Stack & Tilt swing.

Those two guys are now really good! They're both playing better than they ever have.

Maybe he (MW) can kick Tiger around a little more this year...

[Game Face]

Originally Posted by Bigvivec

Maybe he (MW) can kick Tiger around a little more this year...

ehehehe...

That is very complimentary of you my dear friend! Anything is possible!
I would love to see those two at it, with Weir coming out on top, of course.

Nothing would please me more than to watch a Stack & Tilt enthusiast like Weir or Badds champion a few wins this year.

[Johneli]

I have a question: How can you tell by just observing someone (like Baddelley) if they're using the "stack and tilt." How does it ostensibly differ from a weight-shift swing? I can't see where he or anyone else is NOT shifting their weight. Are there any other telltale signs?

[Game Face]

Originally Posted by Johneli

I have a question: How can you tell by just observing someone (like Baddelley) if they're using the "stack and tilt." How does it ostensibly differ from a weight-shift swing? I can't see where he or anyone else is NOT shifting their weight. Are there any other telltale signs?

I'm not very good at explaining things, so I'll do my best imitation. Looking at the swing from the rear view (towards the final target) it is not easy to tell if you're not used to watching someone perform the S&T.

One of the key things to look for is the movement of the legs. Baddeley and Weir do this so well, but we'll stick with the righties...

On the backswing the right leg straightens out while the left leg bends. The head hovers over the ball instead of swaying back away from the initial target (the ball). The swing is very compact so you might notice the arms look a little lower than the high arc of the standard backswing, while the club looks like it's on a lower plane.

Hope this helps some.


This is the S&T backswing from the rear (and front).


. . .

This is a good shot from the front with the follow thru.

. . .

[Johneli]

Originally Posted by Game Face

I'm not very good at explaining things, so I'll do my best imitation. Looking at the swing from the rear view (towards the final target) it is not easy to tell if you're not used to watching someone perform the S&T.

One of the key things to look for is the movement of the legs. Baddeley and Weir do this so well, but we'll stick with the righties...

On the backswing the right leg straightens out while the left leg bends. The head hovers over the ball instead of swaying back away from the initial target (the ball). The swing is very compact so you might notice the arms look a little lower than the high arc of the standard backswing, while the club looks like it's on a lower plane.

Hope this helps some.


This is the S&T backswing from the rear (and front).


. . .

This is a good shot from the front with the follow thru.

. . .

I DO see it now!! Thank you. It actually looks like they're leaning a tad forward instead of shifting backwards. Thanks for the effort it took to post the pics as well. It really helped me see what I had been missing.

[Game Face]

Originally Posted by Johneli

I DO see it now!! Thank you. It actually looks like they're leaning a tad forward instead of shifting backwards. Thanks for the effort it took to post the pics as well. It really helped me see what I had been missing.

You are very welcome.

The S&T has helped my game considerably. I've noticed that as I get older (nearing 53) that my body is not near as flexible as it used to be, even with the proper excercises. The shorter backswing and hitting down on the ball with a nice straight up follow thru has made it easier to get the club around, and it helps to keep the ball in the fairway more than ever. Some people say you need to be more flexible for the S&T, but I am proof that it's not true. My score isn't much better (low-mid 90's avg), but the S&T has helped me to stay on the course instead of just watching it on the tele.

[larryrsf]

Stack and tilt is little different than Hogan's swing. He stayed on his front leg, just barely lifted his front heel during his backswing--and quickly returned his weight there and pivoted around his front leg, clearing his hips early-- That was the source of his accuracy and power, of course. Many accused Hogan of having a "reverse pivot," but he did not downswing OTT.

Larry

[larryrsf]

Originally Posted by xnavyct

I'm trying to figure out 'how much' to bend my right knee during my backswing (I'm a lefty). Is everyones' interpetation to just let it bend however much it does naturally, as long as you stay 'stacked' over the ball with your spine?

Here is a BIG hint and one that will change your swing-- it did mine. I had a persistent problem of "lagging back," being "late" striking the ball before my weight was fully posted.

The answer was to address with an almost straight front leg--and consciously keep it less flexed (not locked) during the whole swing. It must POST during the downswing if you are not going to be late. Try it. It worked instantly for me and also for a friend beside me. We both suddenly became able to make the transition weight shift-- and hit that sucker straight EVERY swing!

YouTube - straight knee transition practice

Subtle, but everything!

You can thank me later-- a fellow lefty who suddenly dropped 5 strokes in handicap!


Larry

[Bigvivec]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

Here is a BIG hint and one that will change your swing-- it did mine. I had a persistent problem of "lagging back," being "late" striking the ball before my weight was fully posted.

The answer was to address with an almost straight front leg--and consciously keep it less flexed (not locked) during the whole swing. It must POST during the downswing if you are not going to be late. Try it. It worked instantly for me and also for a friend beside me. We both suddenly became able to make the transition weight shift-- and hit that sucker straight EVERY swing!

YouTube - straight knee transition practice

Subtle, but everything!

You can thank me later-- a fellow lefty who suddenly dropped 5 strokes in handicap!


Larry

Larry...you went from a 6 to a 1!?!? Wow!