Back to basics

[mr3856a]

...and back to GRW.

I followed up perhaps my best range session ever this past Saturday with a decent start descending into complete swing chaos on Sunday. Literally from best to worst overnight.

In thinking about it yesterday after the frustration subsided it dawned on me - I had let two things happen. I paid zero attention to my grip, and I can remember the club flopping around at the end of my swing - problem 1. Then I also realized that I had let the ball get too far away from me, reaching way out for it.

So out of your, say, 4 basics (grip, stance, alignment and posture), I had let two slide, and big-time. No wonder I had hit the ball so poorly.

My question is this (for myself as much as for anyone else): do you check your fundamentals regularly to see that they aren't slipping, and how often when you play or practice poorly do you think it can be attributed to poor fundamentals?

I think it happens to me more than I think. I re-read the section in Hogan's "Five Lessons" on grip and stance today, and I'm willing to bet things will at least get turned around next time out.

How much do you pay attention to the "basics"?

[JimSomebody]

I pay attention to the basics when I'm on the range, but on the course I tend to ignore them until the wheels are off the wagon. On the course, when I've hit a few inexplicably bad shots in a row, and I'm asking myself "What is going ON here?", that's when I consciously go over my fundamentals.

I heard (can't prove) that Nicklaus once said that 80% of the causes of bad shots are present at set-up. So, on the course, if I need a quick fix, first thing I do is check everything in my set-up.

Good to have you back, mr.

[mr3856a]

I've heard similar things. After I had this revelation yesterday I got to thinking, I wonder how many other times I've had uncharacteristically poor days (particularly when I've been playing well prior) it's been the same thing - just letting my fundamentals go and not realizing it.

[larryrsf]

Originally Posted by mr3856a

...and back to GRW.

I followed up perhaps my best range session ever this past Saturday with a decent start descending into complete swing chaos on Sunday. Literally from best to worst overnight.

In thinking about it yesterday after the frustration subsided it dawned on me - I had let two things happen. I paid zero attention to my grip, and I can remember the club flopping around at the end of my swing - problem 1. Then I also realized that I had let the ball get too far away from me, reaching way out for it.

So out of your, say, 4 basics (grip, stance, alignment and posture), I had let two slide, and big-time. No wonder I had hit the ball so poorly.

My question is this (for myself as much as for anyone else): do you check your fundamentals regularly to see that they aren't slipping, and how often when you play or practice poorly do you think it can be attributed to poor fundamentals?

I think it happens to me more than I think. I re-read the section in Hogan's "Five Lessons" on grip and stance today, and I'm willing to bet things will at least get turned around next time out.

How much do you pay attention to the "basics"?

The only "secret" to taking your range success to the course is to hit a zillion balls! All good players have hit thousands and thousands of balls on the range. Once you have something that works, keep doing it! Deeply ingrain it! Then go to the range again the next day and further ingrain what works. Then the next day, etc. etc. Make no changes. Just do it again and again--POUND your grip and setup and backswing (and especially your confidence and relaxation level) into your head. Most (Harvey Penick) advise hitting middle irons, 8 or 9i a zillion times. Just stay with one club. Don't move to long irons or fairway woods--don't risk failure that will make you start experimenting and tense you up-- until you have it totally grooved, until you are just super confident and relaxed with any club any lie. Then hit a few more difficult clubs, go back to the short irons again. THEN go out and play and you will find that your range setup and swing is your course setup and swing-- no need to think about it.

Consistentcy is far more about relaxation and confidence than it is technical stuff. And relaxation and confidence only comes in the second or third BIG bucket of balls, all hit with the same 8i.

There ain't no secret other than hard work.

Larry

[Diane]

My bad shots are usually due to something basic so I try to recognize what I did immediately after so I don't do it again. I'm a walker so I'll reason through it as I walk to my next shot. Doesn't always work, but it's good to know what I'm doing wrong.

[larryrsf]

Originally Posted by Diane

My bad shots are usually due to something basic so I try to recognize what I did immediately after so I don't do it again. I'm a walker so I'll reason through it as I walk to my next shot. Doesn't always work, but it's good to know what I'm doing wrong.

In my personal experience and from watching others on the course and on the range, "what we do wrong" happens 99% due to tension. NOBODY can move through a golf swing correctly while tense. You can't turn and you certainly can't start the downswing in the correct sequence. A tense and almost frozen golfer can only stiffly throw his arms and shoulders OTT. It is impossible to start the downswing with the weight shift, hips first.

So in practice all good golfers must have hit enough balls on the range to acquire confidence; they must see and believe in their own success before than can relax and do it again. That is why Harvey Penick had his college teams hit 90%+ with a short iron-- driver only occasionally. He wanted them to see themselves hit it well, then reinforce that will more repetitions. There are no shortcuts.

Remember Sam Snead said his grip pressure was, "like you would hold a baby bird." Jack Nicklaus said he addressed the ball with "ragdoll" loose arms, NO tension. They knew from countless hours and hours hitting balls what actually works--and what causes failure.

Good luck!

Larry

[Leaguegolf]

Yeah, 99% of the mistakes I make are due to tension. If that were the case, that must mean that 99% of the things I do right are due to tension as well. Tension in the swing is a factor but it's not 99% of the average golfer's problem. Sorry, larryrsf but there is no one correct way to swing a golf club and what may be tension for you is normal and successful for me.

[arroyotrabuco]

That's all I think about. Just don't know what happens from back swing to contact...

[JPsuff]

Originally Posted by mr3856a

...My question is this (for myself as much as for anyone else): do you check your fundamentals regularly to see that they aren't slipping, and how often when you play or practice poorly do you think it can be attributed to poor fundamentals?...


...How much do you pay attention to the "basics"?

I think that the best observation I've ever heard (and I can't for the life of me remember who said it) is that the greatest asset a good golfer has is the ability to "fix himself" out on the course.

We've all played with someone who, say, is consistently hooking their tee shots or chunking their wedges or some other such thing and says aloud that they can't understand why it's happening, or that everything was fine on the range yesterday. They most often resign themselves to the fact that this is the way it is and they begin to do things to compensate for whatever issue they're having by aiming in a different direction or altering their rhythm or tempo in an effort to deal with the problem.

The reason why this happens is twofold: One deals with human nature and the other is an inablity to understand what's wrong, or in short: They can't fix themselves.

To be able to fix yourself, you need to have one thing: An Index Point.

An Index Point is a setup that will produce a dependable and repeatable swing and shot. Now this Index Point isn't usually associated with a career shot or any type of advanced or "above and beyond" type of shot. It's refers to a basic setup - a bench-setting from which a golfer is positive that he can produce a satisfacory shot; one that will stay in play, be of serviceable distance and can be repeated. This shot will not break any course records nor will it impress anyone seeing it, but it serves to get a golfer back to a point at which he can "start over".

Index Points encompass the fundamentals that mr3856a refers to, "grip, stance, alignment and posture" along with a basic standard for takeaway, turn, weight-shift, downswing and so on. It is a "neutral" or "standard" setup - one which we inevitably distort to the point of inoperablility.

Human beings suffer from one main character flaw, and that is the tendency to believe that if a little of something improves the result, then a lot of something must be even better. This is rarely true, but we believe it nonetheless. For example, it's widely accepted (and proven) that if we move the ball a bit farther forward in our stance (towards the target) we can release the club more powerfully and thus add distance. But human nature will take that 1/2 to 1-inch of positional advantage and distort it to the point where we have the ball 3 to 4 inches past our toe by the time we realize that we're hitting it sideways.

This happens with all aspects of the swing; a parallel turn becomes a Daly-esque attemt to strike our hip pocket on the backswing, or an "agressive" weight shift begins to feel more like we're deliberately stepping into a fastball than simply moving from back to front. Exaggeration is human, but the ability to correct ourselves or to at least realize what we've created from what once was a good swing is critical to our being able to rescue ourselves from our own ego.

That's where the Index Point comes into play. When a good golfer goes astray (and all golfers do) he can accept a "one-time" bad shot as an aberration but if it happens a couple more times he quickly realizes that something is wrong and he goes back to his "Index Point" or his "Bench-Settings" and he re-establishes the dependable, albeit adequately productive "stock setup".

Everyone should have such a setup and know what it feels like and where everything is supposed to be. In mine, for example, I know that the ball sits just a tiny bit left of my instep, my grip is basically neutral, the club points just a touch left of my belt buckle and I check to make sure that my hips and shoulders are parallel to the target line and that my left foot is about an inch back from square producing a very slightly open stance.
From this setup, I can hit a basic shot. If it's a driver, I know I can count on something in the low 200 yard range in carry, basically straight and with a mid-level trajectory. This is nowhere near my potential, but it was my quest for that potential that got me all messed up in the first place, so this setup will do just fine until I can successfully stay out of my own way.
Once I re-establish myself and I'm comfotable with the way things feel, THEN I can move the ball a bit more forward, or slightly strengthen the grip, or whatever I know works to maximize results but have so distorted and embellished so as to render and such adjustments useless.

I have made these corrections many times during a round and that is the key to getting better and staying better. Too often people simply "live with" a swing problem figuring that they need to "get to a range" to work it out rather than being able to fall back to a stock setup - and "Index Point" during the round and thus salvaging what would otherwise be just another day of "I have no idea what's going on with this swing!"

People who don't have an Index Point never actually "fix" anything at their next trip to the range but rather they stumble upon some workable setup (because they never set up to the ball in a consistent manner) and then declare themselves "cured". And the irony is that whatever they were doing at the range may very well be what they need to be doing all the time but it's just that they have no idea what they "did" because they never bothered to take notes or commit any of it to memory. So, the next time they play and something else goes wrong, they patiently muddle through it, go back to the range to "fix it", stumble upon something else, have no idea what it was and the cycle starts all over again.

When I'm at the range, I pay attention to how things feel, where I'm standing, where the club is and so on whenever I hit a series of good shots. I make mental notes of where my hands are, where the ball is, etc. so that I know, that for this club or this group of clubs (short irons, mid irons, woods, etc.) this particular setup works well. I can always embellish it when I need to get the most out of it but more importantly, when I distort it beyond all recognition ( as I know I will) I know where everything is supposed to be, so I can just take a moment to "put everything back where it belongs" and from then on I can continue to play golf instead of trying to solve riddles.




-JP

[straightshooter]

I used to maintain my swing by practicing a lot, fixing things as necessary, but without paying enough attention to fundamentals. I'd get confident when things would go well, and soon after some flaw would slip in. I have had to reinvent some fundamentals over and over in the process. I now pay a lot of attention to the fundamentals. I believe that fundamentals are quite 'personal': Most golfers get some of them right automatically, and have others that tend to slip away from them. Take notes, and write down your own fundamentals (or Index point as the previous poster calls it), so that you won't have to reinvent the wheel too many times, like I have had to do. It may take quite a while to nail them down: It was quite a puzzle for me, but keeping notes was the best thing I ever did.

[mr3856a]

Originally Posted by straightshooter

I used to maintain my swing by practicing a lot, fixing things as necessary, but without paying enough attention to fundamentals. I'd get confident when things would go well, and soon after some flaw would slip in. I have had to reinvent some fundamentals over and over in the process. I now pay a lot of attention to the fundamentals. I believe that fundamentals are quite 'personal': Most golfers get some of them right automatically, and have others that tend to slip away from them. Take notes, and write down your own fundamentals (or Index point as the previous poster calls it), so that you won't have to reinvent the wheel too many times, like I have had to do. It may take quite a while to nail them down: It was quite a puzzle for me, but keeping notes was the best thing I ever did.

I think you are very right, and with the risk of speaking for you, what I think you mean by the idea that some golfers have to reinvent some fundamentals is that we all have certain ones that we get right almost automatically, and certain ones that we tend to get wrong. And knowing the ones you tend to get wrong is the key. I know that for me it's the grip getting sloppy and letting the ball get too far out and away from me.

I think a lot of times it's the simple things.

[mr3856a]

Originally Posted by JPsuff

Human beings suffer from one main character flaw, and that is the tendency to believe that if a little of something improves the result, then a lot of something must be even better.

Harvey Penick agreed with you! He said, "If I tell you to take an aspirin, don't take the whole bottle." He said that golfers tend to take something that improves their game and then overdo it to the point where it hurts them.

[petermo]

Welcome back!

JPsuff is spot on - the problem with golf when one is striking the ball well is that we take it for granted and tend to push the limits more and more for example by hitting harder and harder - then bang - utter rubbish! I think this happens because something like alignmnet, posture, swing speed, ball position gradually changes and our automatic ability to compensate for small changes lets us get away with it until there's no more room for error.

That's why constant reference checks are very good (call them fundamentals or index points) and very often form part of great players' preshot routines.

Great topic.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

In my personal experience and from watching others on the course and on the range, "what we do wrong" happens 99% due to tension. NOBODY can move through a golf swing correctly while tense. You can't turn and you certainly can't start the downswing in the correct sequence. A tense and almost frozen golfer can only stiffly throw his arms and shoulders OTT. It is impossible to start the downswing with the weight shift, hips first.

So in practice all good golfers must have hit enough balls on the range to acquire confidence; they must see and believe in their own success before than can relax and do it again. That is why Harvey Penick had his college teams hit 90%+ with a short iron-- driver only occasionally. He wanted them to see themselves hit it well, then reinforce that will more repetitions. There are no shortcuts.

Remember Sam Snead said his grip pressure was, "like you would hold a baby bird." Jack Nicklaus said he addressed the ball with "ragdoll" loose arms, NO tension. They knew from countless hours and hours hitting balls what actually works--and what causes failure.

Good luck!

Larry

Funny... I almost never hit balls on the range... I find it to be quite boring and because of that it usually does me more harm than good. I "fix myself" out on the course most of the time, with about 90% of my practice time split between chipping and putting. IMO, if you are good in your setup, and if you initiate your swing with a good takeaway for the first foot, then the rest mostly just follows... at least it does for me.

When things go wrong, as they did last week, I do as the OP suggested, and review my basics. In this case, I found that I have somehow been shifting my left hand to a stronger position, which was resulting in a hook, pull hook, or straight pull... in any event everything was going left. But instead of racing out to the range and hitting 400 balls, I do my self repair out on the course while playing, because that is what works for me. I played 18 yesterday while working my grip, and it seemed to work. I'm about to head out today to test the repair work and see if it holds up. My Men's Club's first tournament is on Saturday, and I'm hoping to have something resembling a swing so I can be of at least some help to my team. I still have almost a month to get it together before the first individual event, and things seem to be starting to gel. I've shot my first round in the 70's already this year (first time in about 8-10 years), which I feel is a major achievement after 8 years of injury induced (and unwanted) swing changes when my handicap ballooned to over 18. I'm almost back to the 10 handicap where I was before the physical problems started to intervene with my swing.

And I've managed that without visiting the range for much more than loosening up my body after the winter layoff each year. I work on the static fundamentals (mostly grip and stance), keep my short game in tune, and only go to the range when I'm really desperate.... somehow I've managed to survive without hitting 1000's of balls. Different strokes for different folks.

[larryrsf]

'When I'm at the range, I pay attention to how things feel, where I'm standing, where the club is and so on whenever I hit a series of good shots. I make mental notes of where my hands are, where the ball is, etc. so that I know, that for this club or this group of clubs (short irons, mid irons, woods, etc.) this particular setup works well."

Yep. The only way to become able to fix yourself is to go out there with massive experience, a zillion swings while watching your divots, and ball flight. (and ball flight, after all, is the ONLY thing that really matters!) --IF it is consistent.

That is how virtually every golfer became good before the modern era of video and swing teachers like Leadbetter, et. al. They just hit a zillion balls, "until their hands bled," to quote Trevino.

That said, however, you can't stand out there and kid yourself, ingraining a serious mistake that works only a percentage of the time. I have seen golfers with YEARS of experience who did that-- developed a golf swing with NO lower body action, "all arms" with compensating hand action necessary to prevent slice. But they hit a zillion range balls while ignoring the divots that were trying to tell them something is wrong. They ignored that they didn't finish like good golfers, and they ignored the 3 of 10 shots that were either sliced, topped, or pull-hooked. 7 went well and so they kept hitting balls--further ingraining a fundamental mistake.

So take lessons until you know what a good swing looks and feels like. THEN hit a zillion balls. But you must be tough on yourself and NOT be satisfied with less than 10 of 10 good shots with a medium iron, 10 good divots, 10 crisp contact in a row. Consistency on the range is the only thing that transfers to the course.

Larry

[JPsuff]

.


Good post and very true.


I think the biggest problem most people encounter on driving ranges is other people.

Most people on a range have a fear of "looking like a hacker" so they tend to "practice" shots they know they can hit well and they tend to shy away from anything new or different. This keeps people in their comfort zone and prevents them from learning anything new.

The story that I like is an article I read once that desribed how Tiger learned to hit his now-famous "stinger" 3-wood. He said that when he first learned it, he knew what he was trying to do but that it took him litereally thousands of attempts before it bacame ingrained enough for him to be a ble to confidently use the shot in tournament play. He himself said that if someone wanted to learn it (he offered a basic explanation of what's involved) they had better be prepared to hit a whole bunch of terrible shots before they began to understand the technique involved.

We didn't see his thousands of misses. All we see is the very practiced and very perfected end result.

To learn anything new or to change something to make it better one has to accept the fact that until this new technique is ingrained, one will likely hit many very poor shots in the process. If one is more concerned about looking foolish or inept to others at the range (who really aren't watching you despite what you may think), then you'll never really improve.

I realized that many years ago and I can honestly say that I really don't care what anyone thinks about me or my swing. They have no idea what I'm trying to accomplish and they have no idea what I'm trying to change. I simply accept the fact that if I'm going to try something new or try to improve on something I already know, I'm going to hit a whole bunch of stinkers before I "get it".
If I let others live inside my head, I'm never going to improve. If I'm more concerned about how I look, then I'll just end up hitting my "comfort shots" with my "comfort clubs" and though I may look good, I'm not learning anything nor am I improving.

We humans have an over-inflated sense of our own importance and we tend to think that others may be judging us so we shy away from things that may make us look foolish or inept. But here's a news flash: No One Cares!

They're not watching you and even if they were, why should whatever they might be thinking have anything to do with what you're trying to accomplish? To make a great omlette, you have to break a few eggs. So break as many as you need to and stop worrying about how you look or what others may be thinking.

Do you think that Tiger cared what he "looked like" while he was learning his "stinger"? Hardly. All he knew was that once he got this shot down pat, he'd have a formidable weapon at his disposal so he endured the hundreds of skulled attempts knowing that eventually it would pay off.


It did.




-JP

[Leaguegolf]

Hey JP! Was that you next to me at the range last week rattling balls off the divider between us? Scared the out of me! Not that I noticed, or cared, but I hope all that practice worked out for ya!

[JPsuff]

Originally Posted by Leaguegolf

Hey JP! Was that you next to me at the range last week rattling balls off the divider between us? Scared the out of me! Not that I noticed, or cared, but I hope all that practice worked out for ya!

That was you?


What's up with that Soul Patch, dude?

Yeah, you looked a little out of it so I slammed a few off the plywood just to wake you up. Did you see that one shank I hit? Really scared the **** outta that old guy about three stalls down!










-JP

[Leaguegolf]

Soul Patch? Dude.......You've got the wrong dude, dude! I do have an extra Bud Lite though......dude