"Sand" Wedge: Perish the word?

[JustPlainWill]

...as I was saying, my goal for this (the beginning of my third full ) season is to consistently play in the low nineties/high eighties. [I played in the mid to high ninties last season.]

The way for me to achieve the goal is to work on the wedges and putting. I have a question though. I am having some trouble trying to figure out when and where to play the sand wedge. It seems as if the sand wedge can be played at other places around the green -----other than in the bunkers. It also seems that depending upon the depth of the greenside bunker, something other than my sand wedge might be an appropriate choice ...e.g. 56* or even 60* wedge. (My theory is that: "The deeper the bunker is from the edge of the green, the more the lofted the choice of wedge might be"). If this is the case, then would I be better off dropping the term "sand" wedge from my golf lexicon and just think of the wedges in terms of their respective loft angles? Would some of you more experienced golfers tell me if my theory makes sense? Thanks, in advance.

---Will

[coralpro]

Will, sand wedge is just a terminolgy associated with a high lofted club with a higher degree of bounce. You can use many clubs out of sand bunkers depending on what you need to achieve ie., high lofted short carry, splash and rolls, spinners that stop but you have to get familiar and comfortable with what each club will do. It is generally best until one gets decent with a sand wedge which is generally a 55 or 56 degree with maybe a 12 degree or higher bounce and just use it. Get proficient and then try other clubs such as a 8I, 9I, pw, 51, 52 degree. Many different scenerios will or should decide the club to use like a long carry or short carry or perhaps whether you want stopping or rollout as well. As far as around the greens we all have our feeling of what generally works similar to what we might use from sand as well. The best thing again is to use one particular club until you get used to the checking and amount of rollout then decide which club might stop the ball sooner or you need to roll further. I generally use my 55 degree for most of my around the green shots from 50 yds and in but I am not stuck with that club and know if it is a different scenerio that say allows me to pitch with a 6 iron or 7 iron and roll the ball I will. Much of it is dependent on slope and moisture level of the green as well. If it was that easy we would all be making big money so practice different clubs and see what works best for you.

[tachus]

I don't have a sand wedge... I have a slap wedge and a lob wedge...

[Game Face]

coralpro said it best...

I don't play a sand "wedge"... I prefer to call it a Sand Iron... I use it in the sand, of course, as well as the rough, pine straw, around the greens and even as an approach iron, if the surface deems it right.


Sand Iron... such an old fashioned sound and beautiful term.

[Fourputt]

I use my 56° SW almost exclusively from the sand. There are a few other instances around the green, but it's mostly a feel thing. If the shot "feels" like a SW, then I'll use it. It is the most lofted club in my bag, so when I shortside myself, I'm sometimes forced to use it, but I may start playing around with my 60° LW again... it goes in and out of my bag like a revolving door. This is the time of year on my home course where the greens are so firm that they will barely even show a ball mark, and trying to stop my 50° GW (my primary chipping/pitching wedge) can be difficult. I also have a lower bounce 56° SW, so I might play with that too. I have a tournament on Saturday, so I want to be as well equipped as possible. I'm only carrying 13 clubs at the moment, so I have space for one more... just have to decide which one I want..

[coralpro]

Take the 56 low bounce Fourputt. Great club for around the green especially if the greens are firm. You can always lay it open slightly if you need more bounce. I carry the 55 and I use it for almost everything although I do have problems going from dry to wet greens with the ball stopping short from the checking. You'd think I'd learn to just hit it a little further but it seems it just checks harder. Perhaps my best best is to switch to a harder ball during wetter conditions.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by coralpro

Take the 56 low bounce Fourputt. Great club for around the green especially if the greens are firm. You can always lay it open slightly if you need more bounce. I carry the 55 and I use it for almost everything although I do have problems going from dry to wet greens with the ball stopping short from the checking. You'd think I'd learn to just hit it a little further but it seems it just checks harder. Perhaps my best best is to switch to a harder ball during wetter conditions.

The answer is to use a lower lofted club when pitching into a strong head wind or to a soft green. In those conditions I will use my 45° PW, instead of the my 50° GW for a "normal" pitch or chip. The ball flies a bit lower, and rolls out a bit more. Under such conditions I never need to use a higher lofted club. I use all three, but I use the SW the least for chipping. I rarely put myself in a position where I NEED the high arc, and I prefer to play a pitch and roll type of shot over a chip that checks quickly.

[coralpro]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

The answer is to use a lower lofted club when pitching into a strong head wind or to a soft green. In those conditions I will use my 45° PW, instead of the my 50° GW for a "normal" pitch or chip. The ball flies a bit lower, and rolls out a bit more. Under such conditions I never need to use a higher lofted club. I use all three, but I use the SW the least for chipping. I rarely put myself in a position where I NEED the high arc, and I prefer to play a pitch and roll type of shot over a chip that checks quickly.

We have smaller greens than most courses and many have the ridges in places where it can be difficult without playing everyday to know exactly where to land it. Where the greens are quick as we have I prefer to try and land it 3/4 the distance and allow for some rollout to the hole. It just gets irritating to hit your spot and have the ball check dead and leave a 12-18 foot putt a bunch. Generally when they have grass growing they don't generally check as quickly. Seems like it should be the other way. The greens are firm and generally don't leave much of a ball mark when approaches hit and generally I would expect those situations to release more. I may try and go to the 51 or the P/W next time out to see if that gives better results.

[Bigvivec]

Originally Posted by tachus

I don't have a sand wedge... I have a slap wedge and a lob wedge...

Slap wedge!?!?!? I have no idea what that is......I must be new...

Yes Will...think of wedges in terms of loft and performance (high with a little roll, tight lie ok, not so high with a bit more roll, good lie or soft sand only, etc...)


Lately I have been pitching with my 8 and 9 iron from 40ish yards...bump and runs when there is alot of green to work with...lots of ways to hit all of your clubs and plenty of ways to get up and down...I will pick a spot in my short game area, drop a pile of balls and try a bunch of clubs to see what works best from that lie and distance...it is all part of the fun, and no "right" answers...standard short game texts will give you the broad strokes, but beyond that the practice area is the only way to see what will work, from what lie, and what distance depending on how much green you have to work with...

[Darth Fader]

I carry a pitching wedge that has 48 deg of loft,i also have Cleveland CG12 wedges 52,56,60 degrees, i use whatever club i think is best suited for the particular shot,i use the 60 from most greenside bunkers,for pitching i drop down to my 8 iron and run it in all the way,no iron club has a set task.

[Diane]

Originally Posted by JustPlainWill

I am having some trouble trying to figure out when and where to play the sand wedge.

Will - I can't help you - I have enough of my own issues with this and I only carry 2 wedges. My brother, who is a much better golfer than I am, spends a lot of time practicing with his wedges. He told me that he has them all labeled for distance so he knows exactly which ones to use at any time. The practice will take the guesswork out of it for you.

[coralpro]

Originally Posted by Diane

Will - I can't help you - I have enough of my own issues with this and I only carry 2 wedges. My brother, who is a much better golfer than I am, spends a lot of time practicing with his wedges. He told me that he has them all labeled for distance so he knows exactly which ones to use at any time. The practice will take the guesswork out of it for you.

With all due respect there is no way to mark distances unless it is a full shot. Even 1/2 and 3/4 can be off some +/-. I think Will's questions followed more on technique and the areas to use the different clubs. More of a technique and touch issue than just distance. You are correct about the practice issue as that is the only way to find out what works in what type of scenerio.

[petermo]

Originally Posted by coralpro

With all due respect there is no way to mark distances unless it is a full shot. Even 1/2 and 3/4 can be off some +/-. I think Will's questions followed more on technique and the areas to use the different clubs. More of a technique and touch issue than just distance. You are correct about the practice issue as that is the only way to find out what works in what type of scenerio.

CP, I know you're not a fan of Dave Pelz but one of the best ideas he has is to mark the distances on your wedges for full swings, 9 o'clock swings and 7 o'clock swings. Very few players hit the ball the same every time but at least it gives one an approximate distance.

It is very mechanical but in the case of a relative newcomer to golf most things have to be mechanical until experience and lots of practice allow feel to develop which is the essence of a good short game. After about 56 years of golf these shots become second nature and one can dispense with mechanical aids!!

[Martini78]

Short game is all about what works for you. If you like hitting a 5-iron for bunker shots, and you score well that way, then hats off to you. PW, GW, SW, LW, 2-iron... whatever... it's all about feel and preference and ultimately -- results.

[coralpro]

Originally Posted by petermo

CP, I know you're not a fan of Dave Pelz but one of the best ideas he has is to mark the distances on your wedges for full swings, 9 o'clock swings and 7 o'clock swings. Very few players hit the ball the same every time but at least it gives one an approximate distance.

It is very mechanical but in the case of a relative newcomer to golf most things have to be mechanical until experience and lots of practice allow feel to develop which is the essence of a good short game. After about 56 years of golf these shots become second nature and one can dispense with mechanical aids!!

I had a buddy of mine had all his clubs lasered for 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full swings and had the mean average recorded but when on the course he would laser every shot inside 150 and look at his notes to see which club and percentage swing with what club gave him that distance. Sometimes he was real close and other times he might be 15 yds off. I tried telling him inside 100 he had to find what club worked for a particular scenerio and learn the touch and feel to create the desired results. He has since actually improved his short game immensely. Some can use a mechanical percentage swing but it has to be practiced over and over to get accurate on distance or a person can start learning feel which is natural for the body to accept more easily IMHO. You don't have to learn how to toss a nickel at a bucket by figuring whether a 1/2 or 3/4 arm movement gets the proper distance. The mind and the body see the image and tries to allow the muscles and release to give the proper distance. It only normally takes 3 tosses max to be close to hitting the bucket. Very similar with a pitch or chip but you have to factor in contact from club to ball. Mechanical swings will have far more deviation from target unless one can learn all the nuances of releases to allow for more check or more roll to allow for the yardage gaps. At least this is my take on it. Perhaps you see otherwise which I'm more than happy to listen and learn.

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by coralpro

I had a buddy of mine had all his clubs lasered for 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full swings and had the mean average recorded but when on the course he would laser every shot inside 150 and look at his notes to see which club and percentage swing with what club gave him that distance. Sometimes he was real close and other times he might be 15 yds off. I tried telling him inside 100 he had to find what club worked for a particular scenerio and learn the touch and feel to create the desired results. He has since actually improved his short game immensely. Some can use a mechanical percentage swing but it has to be practiced over and over to get accurate on distance or a person can start learning feel which is natural for the body to accept more easily IMHO. You don't have to learn how to toss a nickel at a bucket by figuring whether a 1/2 or 3/4 arm movement gets the proper distance. The mind and the body see the image and tries to allow the muscles and release to give the proper distance. It only normally takes 3 tosses max to be close to hitting the bucket. Very similar with a pitch or chip but you have to factor in contact from club to ball. Mechanical swings will have far more deviation from target unless one can learn all the nuances of releases to allow for more check or more roll to allow for the yardage gaps. At least this is my take on it. Perhaps you see otherwise which I'm more than happy to listen and learn.

You're right, but so is petermo. For beginners Pelz's mechanical way is a good learning method. I've been playing for over 40 years, though, and if I started to think about how far I take the club back on touch shots I'd be lucky to make contact.

[coralpro]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

You're right, but so is petermo. For beginners Pelz's mechanical way is a good learning method. I've been playing for over 40 years, though, and if I started to think about how far I take the club back on touch shots I'd be lucky to make contact.

I just thought if one can learn to make contact somewhat consistently then it is much easier in my belief to learn touch easier than learning clockwork precision.

[Bigvivec]

I am split over this...

I use both in that I have lasered my distances with mechanical swings of the pelz system (out of date now...just went to touch up the distances today), but essentially what I am looking for is a general idea...for instance if a 52* 1/4 swing gives 45 yds with a mid trajectory and I am hitting into an uphill green with the hole back, total distance around 50 yds, then I know that I have my club...then the feel part takes over, and I just concentrate on the hole and my imagined ballflight (JP's matching the mental to the actual picture of the shot in your mind is dead on...another thread though...sorry for the confusion)...it is then all about throwing the shot at the hole just like I might a tennis ball or cantaloupe...look at the target and pitch away...only that I have the aid of a framework that gives me the confidence that I will at least wind up in the general area at worst...(worst is a bladed shot over the green, but we aren't talking about that!!)

[coralpro]

Originally Posted by Bigvivec

I am split over this...

I use both in that I have lasered my distances with mechanical swings of the pelz system (out of date now...just went to touch up the distances today), but essentially what I am looking for is a general idea...for instance if a 52* 1/4 swing gives 45 yds with a mid trajectory and I am hitting into an uphill green with the hole back, total distance around 50 yds, then I know that I have my club...then the feel part takes over, and I just concentrate on the hole and my imagined ballflight (JP's matching the mental to the actual picture of the shot in your mind is dead on...another thread though...sorry for the confusion)...it is then all about throwing the shot at the hole just like I might a tennis ball or cantaloupe...look at the target and pitch away...only that I have the aid of a framework that gives me the confidence that I will at least wind up in the general area at worst...(worst is a bladed shot over the green, but we aren't talking about that!!)

Then it is only the confusion in your perception that befuzzles you. You are a touch person not mechanical. In mechanical it is purely about a specific swing position and its distance and that is it. When you start thinking of ball flight and landing spot and make a swing to a specific target it no longer should be confused with mechanical. Mechanical says the ball goes this far and I will have that putt left. You even mentioned in another post about throwing it past the hole and backing it up which is precisely what feel allows a person to do. Now if a person can break down their swing into precise clock positions and use say a 7clock position or an 8clock position then I'd say they are mechanical. If you never use a different speed or tempo to a pitch or chip I'd probably equate that as mechanical as well.