R U trying to get better?

[Bigvivec]

So the training rage in the golf magazines has us tracking our stats via computer and applying formulas to determine our weaknesses so that we may better focus our practice time…personally I don’t need a formula to tell me that I don’t hit enough greens or putt consistently enough to score better than I do…over the last year I have gone from breaking 80 for the first time (March 2007) to having my off days being 80 or higher…that being said, there is still plenty of room for improvement in light of the time that I have available to play and practice…my weakness is my approach play…I keep basic stats and have been hitting a ridiculously high percentage of fairways with good distance, so I really don’t have an excuse other than I need to practice more…second being putting, but as Ben Hogan said, to improve putting you need to get the ball closer to the hole my putting isn’t bad by any stretch, but I feel that it could be better…lag putting is strange juju to me…on a given day I either have “it” or I don’t and outside of lots of putting time on the practice green I don’t think there is a way to get any better at the long ones…I don’t know why chipping is easier to “feel” for me, but on a green that I am blocked to any degree I will play for a safe fringe area where my chances of two to get down are better than a long putt over breaks and surface grain…but I digress…

What do you need to work on?

I posted a thread in the winter about weaknesses and what areas you needed to improve, but will ask again now that more of the board has some 2008 rounds under their belts…

[Darth Fader]

I really need to work on my short game,tee to green is as solid as its been,pitching and putting is killing me just now. Trying to find time to play,practice and move home,whilst beeing in the process of building a new home is not conducive to good golf.

[swerve]

I need to work on my putting and my game from 20-40 yards out.

Today I'm going out to practice for about 3-4 hours while my g/f is at work.

It seems as though I would have a lot of par attempts make my putts. When I say my putts... I'm referring to the 4-5 footers.

Off the tee my game is going pretty well... often times my second shot is around the green... but never on it. If my tee shot is errant I can often times get out of trouble and save bogey pretty easily.

my putting is ruining everything right now.

[GolfSavage]

I need better accuracy hitting the green from 160-220 yards out (mid to low# irons and hybrids, FW), whether from the fairway or the tee. Especially the longer par 3s, where too often I have to get up and down for par, instead of putting for birdie.
With a 7 iron from 160-170 out I can hit the green about 50%, but as I go up to 6 and 5 it's about 25%, 3-4 iron maybe 10%, hybrid 20%, FW 20%. Would like the confidence to make the green 50% or better with all these clubs. Is that unreasonable?

[JPsuff]

.


I'm always trying to get better.

I played my very first round of 2008 today after a five-month layoff and it would appear that my short irons (of all things) seem to need work. Actually that's not quite true because last night I went to the range to warm up and I was hitting short irons quite well, but on the course I'm too quick with my swing and I pulled up and out of several short iron shots today.

This of course is an easy fix, but it surprised me nonetheless.

As far as everything else went, I couldn't be happier. My driver is working very well and though I'm not quite up to full speed yet (and probably won't be for a little while), I was accurate and quite long on more than a few tee shots. My long irons and my hybrid are very good as well; I striped a beautiful five iron on a side hill lie from about 190 or so to within 20 feet and I even hit a par five in two with a super-sweet 220 yard hybrid to the back of the green.

But the most surprising thing was my chipping and putting which was outstanding. I had thirty putts all day with at least four one-putt pars (blame the short irons), one birdie and several chips to within inches. I've also discovered that I really like my new 60 degree wedge. I threw it in the bag to see what's what with it and I think this is going to be a great club for me. I've never liked 60's overall, but this one really feels nice.

All in all, for the first time out since last November, I can't complain. I shot an 82, but I know I left at least four to six shots out there due to my short irons. But my short irons are usually my strong suit and I know I just have to slow down a bit with them and they'll be fine. If things improve from here, my goal of breaking 70 may very well be within reach this season.



-JP

[essurfer]

Since returning from the game after year off, my short game is terrible. Thats what Ive been working on at the range.

[bjdrivers]

Originally Posted by essurfer

Since returning from the game after year off, my short game is terrible. Thats what Ive been working on at the range.

Same here, that's usually the first thing to go. It goes from feel to a guessing game around the greens.

[swerve]

So i played twice today... 9 holes each time. In the morning I played okay until my phone started to go crazy... I'm starting a new job so I have to have it on for now.
but that is another story.

What was bothering me is that my fade has turned into a draw. This may not be a bad thing but I was just getting used to hitting and adjusting to my drives. But It seems like i'm getting a ton of top spin on the ball when i draw it. When I played this evening I tee'd off and the ball started right and shot to the ground pretty quickly and rolled for days... it even rolled through a bunker. I need to fix this bad.

And another problem i'm having is that i'm losing distance on my 4-7iron. I've just resorted to hitting my 8 iron and not going for the green.

i wonder if i am getting too vertical with my swing. i think i may just need to slow things down.

[larryrsf]

I am always working to make a more aggressive downswing-- and a shorter backswing. I see I am still a little late-- The thing on my foot emits a sound when it "hears" the impact IF my back foot heel is still down, i.e. "late."

YouTube - aggressive 7i swings

Larry

[Bulls9999]

I dragged a video camcorder and tripod to the driving range the other day.....easier to see what I'm doing by looking at a replay than to try and figure it out while I'm swinging, for sure. I tried different angles....full shot from behind the tee box, from directly face on while swinging, then close up/zoom of waist down to see a larger picture of the ball being struck. Used alignment guides (irons, fiberglass stick) on both sides of the ball so I can more readily follow my swing path through the guided path.....fuggly.

Yes, I'm going bad out-to-in and need to fix that. I could swear I wasn't doing it while I was swinging, but looking at the replay doesn't lie.

[larryrsf]

Originally Posted by Bulls9999

I dragged a video camcorder and tripod to the driving range the other day.....easier to see what I'm doing by looking at a replay than to try and figure it out while I'm swinging, for sure. I tried different angles....full shot from behind the tee box, from directly face on while swinging, then close up/zoom of waist down to see a larger picture of the ball being struck. Used alignment guides (irons, fiberglass stick) on both sides of the ball so I can more readily follow my swing path through the guided path.....fuggly.

Yes, I'm going bad out-to-in and need to fix that. I could swear I wasn't doing it while I was swinging, but looking at the replay doesn't lie.

The video camera is good, but you really don't need that. A great way to work on a correct clubhead path is to swing through the ball and also over something in front of the ball-- even a little outside the target line to exaggerate. Many good players try to hit the inside of the back of the ball, same idea. The divot tells the story. Many good players plan the divot to be made-- and then do it. Forget the ball.

Do it in slow motion. You will notice that in order to bring the clubhead from the inside you must post your weight on your front leg, pivot around your front hip, and hold your back elbow against your side.

We should get the downswing sequence right in slow motion, then incrementally increase speed until we start doing OTT again. Then back off and get it right again. Ideally you will ingrain the correct sequence and be able to do it even when swinging at max effort.


Good luck!!

Larry

[alangbaker]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

Do it in slow motion. You will notice that in order to bring the clubhead from the inside you must post your weight on your front leg, pivot around your front hip, and hold your back elbow against your side.

This is simply not so. One can stand on one's rear foot and still hit the ball from the inside and one can transition one's weight to the front foot and still hit OTT.

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by alangbaker

This is simply not so. One can stand on one's rear foot and still hit the ball from the inside and one can transition one's weight to the front foot and still hit OTT.

I agree. In fact I've done both recently.

[larryrsf]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

I agree. In fact I've done both recently.

Not unless you are some sort of contortionist!!! Even in a good golf swing the back arm elbow brushes the back hip, barely clearing. All it takes is a little lateness to cause the elbow to impact the hip and force the clubhead outside the target line.

Reference: "Swing Like A Pro" Page 106

"Finally, the initial move forward with your feet, legs, and hips sets up a chain reaction of movements in the upper body that allows you to transport the club forward along the proper swing path.

Although the main purpose of the transition move is to produce power, it has the nice residual effect of allowing the correct swing path to occur. One of the major reasons most golfers fade or slice the ball is because they're unable to move their lower body out of the way of the upper body and club. It is obvious that if the hips are in the way during the downswing, the arms and club cannot follow the inside path required to hit the ball straight. Instead, the lower body is an obstacle that forces the arms and club outside, producing the dreaded slice. "

Read Bobby Jone in "Bobby Jones on Golf" Page 145 as he describes "The Magic Line" and the overriding importance in the golf swing to start the downswing with hips in order to allow ourselves to retain the clubhead inside the target line extended back through the ball. He says there is no other way to hit the ball straight -- except by quickly flipping the clubhead closed to compensate for the slice spin imparted.

Larry



Larry

[alangbaker]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

Not unless you are some sort of contortionist!!! Even in a good golf swing the back arm elbow brushes the back hip, barely clearing. All it takes is a little lateness to cause the elbow to impact the hip and force the clubhead outside the target line.

If that were the whole story, then please explain how rotating around the front hip would make that better and not worse. If you rotate around the front hip, the rear hip is going to move forward; making it more in the way of the right elbow, not less.

Reference: "Swing Like A Pro" Page 106

"Finally, the initial move forward with your feet, legs, and hips sets up a chain reaction of movements in the upper body that allows you to transport the club forward along the proper swing path.

Although the main purpose of the transition move is to produce power, it has the nice residual effect of allowing the correct swing path to occur. One of the major reasons most golfers fade or slice the ball is because they're unable to move their lower body out of the way of the upper body and club. It is obvious that if the hips are in the way during the downswing, the arms and club cannot follow the inside path required to hit the ball straight. Instead, the lower body is an obstacle that forces the arms and club outside, producing the dreaded slice. "

I suggest you read the first sentence of the second paragraph over and over and over...

The fact is that for an inside approach the the ball, the lower body is less of an obstacle when it has rotated back and then lags behind the upper body.

I think what actually leads golfers to come over the top is the perception that the correct direction to the ball is straight towards the target while the hips and shoulders have rotated away. If at that point, you start a movement which takes the clubhead on what feels like a path that will be directly to the target when the clubhead reaches impact and then the lower body and shoulders rotate, then that path rotates too; taking it from an inside to square path, to an outside to in path.

I realize that that may be a little difficult to visualize, but does anyone here see what I'm driving at?

Read Bobby Jone in "Bobby Jones on Golf" Page 145 as he describes "The Magic Line" and the overriding importance in the golf swing to start the downswing with hips in order to allow ourselves to retain the clubhead inside the target line extended back through the ball. He says there is no other way to hit the ball straight -- except by quickly flipping the clubhead closed to compensate for the slice spin imparted.

And he is vastly oversimplifying matters for general consumption.

One of the things that can happen to a golfer who fails to move the hips first is a hook. Since a good golfer knows how to use the hands and arms to make the clubhead approach impact from inside, if he or she fails to use the lower body, then upper body will still be turned clockwise (for a right-handed golfer) as the club approaches the ball and with the shoulders thus pointing right and the club already moving out to in with the proper arm and hand action, the result can be either a block out to the right or a hook.

If you like, I'll post a video of precisely this move.

[larryrsf]

"If you like,"

It is not about me or what I "would like. "

I cited irrefutable sources to bolster my contention that we must post on our front leg before impact in order to hit the ball consistently straight. That is what virtually every PGA pro teaches. It is fact and it is simple.

I am not interested in any sort of personal argument.

Larry

[straightshooter]

I am always working on my swing, instead of on what may matter more (to scoring). So perhaps I am not seriously (or at least not efficiently) trying to get better. But I sure enjoy working on my swing!

[alangbaker]

Originally Posted by larryrsf

"If you like,"

It is not about me or what I "would like. "

I offered a demonstration of my point with a colloquial expression.

I cited irrefutable sources to bolster my contention that we must post on our front leg before impact in order to hit the ball consistently straight. That is what virtually every PGA pro teaches. It is fact and it is simple.

It is not a fact. I'm sorry, but it's just not. Any time you want a video demonstrating that this is not the case, just ask.

I am not interested in any sort of personal argument.

And you didn't get one. You got a discussion of what really leads to swinging from out to in. You've failed to address the points made and have instead chose to fall back on the fallacy of appeal to authority.

Sorry for trying to have a discussion about golf.

Have a nice day.

[TwillDog]

My current thoughts are to shorten my backswing (which would eliminate at least 75% of my problems), and get my right side more involved with my swing. When I played baseball, and later softball in a men's league, I was a lot better swinging through the ball. My swing was still long, but my timing was better. Between no more softball and likely the 40-50 extra pounds I have since I last played, I don't get through the ball as well as I used to. And I can't have a swing that relies so heavily on timing - I need a shorter backswing so I can get the meat of the club on the ball more often. I have played 3 consecutive rounds at an executive course (12 par 3's) and have not hit more than 3 greens in any round. That's pitiful, and miserable...

[larryrsf]

Originally Posted by TwillDog

My current thoughts are to shorten my backswing (which would eliminate at least 75% of my problems), and get my right side more involved with my swing. When I played baseball, and later softball in a men's league, I was a lot better swinging through the ball. My swing was still long, but my timing was better. Between no more softball and likely the 40-50 extra pounds I have since I last played, I don't get through the ball as well as I used to. And I can't have a swing that relies so heavily on timing - I need a shorter backswing so I can get the meat of the club on the ball more often. I have played 3 consecutive rounds at an executive course (12 par 3's) and have not hit more than 3 greens in any round. That's pitiful, and miserable...

Hi Twill,

I have discovered the hard way that when I start my downswing with hips BEFORE my backswing gets too high, I can make a pretty decent swing.

I do the "OTT Chop" exercise to ingrain a hips-first move--to separate my hips from my shoulders. That is necessary if we are going to keep the clubhead inside the target line--hit from the inside and avoid slice. It was interesting to learn that several touring pros did that--Corey Pavin, et. al.

This youtube clip made yesterday is a typical range session for me-- in which I drill to ingrain the transition weight shift, separation, hips before shoulders. I regret that I played for 5 years ingraining just the opposite, the typical high handicappers OTT shoulders first swing--

I see that my front leg "post" is faulty (I am on my front foot toe with knee bent instead of on my front foot heel with knee almost straight). I will fix that today.

But these drills are the way --if there is a way! I am not sure someone my age can ever replace bad habits that were ingrained, but I intend to try. In fact now that I really understand this too common swing fault, I refuse to swing OTT again and risk erasing all this hard work!!

YouTube - Transition drills 5-22-08

Larry