Global Warming - Reality or Myth?

[Texas Wedge]

FWIW, I heard a researcher on the radio this morning say that the Earth is getting off it's orbit and that is causing all our weather issues. He also suggested that the solution is to cap off all oil wells, thus forcing the oil back down into the Earth's core and heating the Earth's core so that it will fix the rotational orbit.

So who's up for that? Is it not a good idea because Gore's not pimping it? What makes his theory any less possible? Just curious...

[JPsuff]

Originally Posted by Texas Wedge

FWIW, I heard a researcher on the radio this morning say that the Earth is getting off it's orbit and that is causing all our weather issues. He also suggested that the solution is to cap off all oil wells, thus forcing the oil back down into the Earth's core and heating the Earth's core so that it will fix the rotational orbit.

So who's up for that? Is it not a good idea because Gore's not pimping it? What makes his theory any less possible? Just curious...

I think the guy on the radio is off his orbit.

The earth's orbit, as well as its tilt and its magnetic polarization (among other things) varies quite a bit and changes over time in a fairly predictable manner. There's nothing new, unusual or undocumented about that.

There's no need to "fix" anything. It's been happening for 4.5 billion years and it's done fine without any "help" from us.


If it ain't broke...






-JP

[coralpro]

Originally Posted by Texas Wedge

FWIW, I heard a researcher on the radio this morning say that the Earth is getting off it's orbit and that is causing all our weather issues. He also suggested that the solution is to cap off all oil wells, thus forcing the oil back down into the Earth's core and heating the Earth's core so that it will fix the rotational orbit.

So who's up for that? Is it not a good idea because Gore's not pimping it? What makes his theory any less possible? Just curious...

For 1 that is ludicrous. The earth has been shifting ever so slightly for a long long time and it has nothing to do with the earths core. It has to do with the sun burning out. I guess now I can expect you to believe anything some joker poses at you.

[droogy33]

Originally Posted by mr3856a

What nobody can deny is the extreme changes in weather patterns we've seen over the last several years, from extreme cold to extreme heat, severe drought, severe flooding, massive hurricanes, unusual tornadic activity, etc. etc. etc. I'm curious as to why, and I should think everyone else ought to be interested as well.

What also can not be denied is the fact that Earth's climate has gone through many severe changes in its history, without a single contribution from Man.

One of our resident historians could probably clue all of us in about some rather strange climatic changes which occurred during, I believe, the 16th Century...before the Industrial Revolution. Europe went through a decade of winterized summers, and many people thought the end of the world was near. You can Google it.

[Texas Wedge]

Originally Posted by coralpro

For 1 that is ludicrous. The earth has been shifting ever so slightly for a long long time and it has nothing to do with the earths core. It has to do with the sun burning out. I guess now I can expect you to believe anything some joker poses at you.

LOL!!! That's my point!! You guys all say THIS guy is a lunatic, but if his name happened to be Al Gore he would be "saving the planet." I give this guy as much credence as Al Gore because there are just as many skeptics who the media ignore or dismiss simply because they disagree with Al.

The Earth's climate has been cycling colder and warmer for eons, yet when Gore jumps up and down crying the sky is falling, people think he must be right? And yet, until recently, HIS OWN HOUSE was a horrible example of someone trying to be green. He caught so much flak over it that he finally did something about it just to stave off the skeptics. He is such a hypocrite I can't take him serious about global warming.

I know you say he doesn't have to live what he's preaching in order to be right, but I still have a hard time believing someone who believes all this doomsday stuff he's preaching wouldn't be the most green person on the planet...I know I would be. They certainly wouldn't be producing the carbon footprint that he is if they really believed in all that hype. And yet you guys defend him by saying he HAS to fly that jet all over the planet to "spread the word". There are a LOT of ways to communicate with people without flying a jet all over the world to do it. We even have the technology nowadays to have video-conferencing where people can see you and your computer generated doomsday scenarios without you ever flying anywhere! But noooo...Gore insists on flying everywhere. Gore is the epitome of "do as I say, not as I do." It's because of that that I find it hard to truly accept his hype. I'm not saying humans haven't negatively affected the environment, but to what extent has not been proven...nor do I think it can be. I drive a car that gets between 20 and 25 mpg (actual mpg, not what they promise on the sticker) and I carpool with 2 other guys to work every day and my family's carbon footprint for a year is less than Gore in just one flight on that jet. And HE's going to tell ME I should ride a bike instead of driving a car?

I want to protect the planet as much as the next guy, but the charlatan that is Al Gore sickens me. I don't like the hypocrisy and someone telling ME how to live when they aren't willing to do it themselves. If global warming is real and he really believes it, he should be leading by example...period. And buying "carbon credits" (from himself) doesn't exactly fit my idea of leading by example. "Hey look everyone, you should buy carbon credits from my company, like I do!"

Okay...now that I'm all stirred up, I'm supposed to go to bed and try to sleep?

[Texas Wedge]

Originally Posted by droogy33

What also can not be denied is the fact that Earth's climate has gone through many severe changes in its history, without a single contribution from Man.

One of our resident historians could probably clue all of us in about some rather strange climatic changes which occurred during, I believe, the 16th Century...before the Industrial Revolution. Europe went through a decade of winterized summers, and many people thought the end of the world was near. You can Google it.

Droogy, you're not supposed to pay attention to that stuff. This is a NEW phenomenon because they've titled it global warming. Don't you follow the Al Gore playbook?

And don't even mention the "global cooling" period around the early 70's when all these genius, never-wrong scientists were forecasting the next ice age!

[coralpro]

TW, the only thing I see is you have a problem with Al Gore, period. The country leaders for years and years have said the only way to drop gas prices was to minimize consumption but how many in Washington car pool or use internet and teleconferencing or political campaigns? The government said much of the ozone breakdown was because of flourocarbons from R12 refrigerant being released into the atmosphere but the military was the worst violator. The world has lived by do as I say not do as I do for decades. You want to blame Gore? At least he has brought it to the forefront! I really don't like any politician but when someone uses common sense I do listen. I originally didn't believe in the global warming theory until I started to research it for myself. I now know it does and has existed for many years and even when confronted with the knowledge the question the people in control have is how do we stop it and still keep stuffing our pockets as well. Guess what most of them side with?

[duketoyou]

Originally Posted by Texas Wedge

Droogy, you're not supposed to pay attention to that stuff. This is a NEW phenomenon because they've titled it global warming. Don't you follow the Al Gore playbook?

And don't even mention the "global cooling" period around the early 70's when all these genius, never-wrong scientists were forecasting the next ice age!

In fact, it is widely accepted by those without an axe to grind, that the earth has actually been cooling for the past 10 years. How anyone can get all worked upon viewing a money making movie by a failed presidential candidate who has no (none) scientific expertise, is beyond me. The anti-global warming experts cite facts, such as the fact that testing (available to all) clearly establishes the oceans are cooling not warming; while AlGore and his ilk show pictures of melting icebergs and scare the devil out of the gullible.

As an aside, my bet is that big AlGore will be the presidential nominee, after the dems cannot decide between the current candidates.

[coralpro]

Originally Posted by duketoyou

In fact, it is widely accepted by those without an axe to grind, that the earth has actually been cooling for the past 10 years. How anyone can get all worked upon viewing a money making movie by a failed presidential candidate who has no (none) scientific expertise, is beyond me. The anti-global warming experts cite facts, such as the fact that testing (available to all) clearly establishes the oceans are cooling not warming; while AlGore and his ilk show pictures of melting icebergs and scare the devil out of the gullible.

As an aside, my bet is that big AlGore will be the presidential nominee, after the dems cannot decide between the current candidates.

Don't know where you are reading your facts but it sounds more like from a comic book or mad magazine. Some areas where sun is prevailent are becoming warmer as in the gulf and the edge of the Atlantic where the gulf meets up. That is the reason for the stronger storms incurred within the past years. During Katrina I believe it was reported by the National Weather Service that the gulf temperature was 1.1 degrees above normal. It takes alot for the oceans temperature to raise even 1 degree. Temperature change in the belt system changes weather all over the globe. Warmer currents cause iceburg melting which cools the belt which in turn slows the currents down as the slainity of the water starts to lower. We haven't seen the next iceage but if everything continues as it is it might be here before you know it. Global warming doesn't mean the whole world is in a sauna or a desert dry enviroment. Some will and some will see the total opposite until all will see the cold or extreme heat. Watch what happens if everyone in the world is restricted to an area 1/1,000,000 th of where the population exists today. Ought to be interesting.

[stlcard_25]

Originally Posted by coralpro

Don't know where you are reading your facts but it sounds more like from a comic book or mad magazine.

That's actually truth, but only because of statistical manipulation. 1998 was the hottest year on record, I believe (an El Nino year), so anything is bound to be cooler. You can make a case of cooling or warming if you pick any year in the last 10, probably.

[Leaguegolf]

Originally Posted by coralpro

Watch what happens if everyone in the world is restricted to an area 1/1,000,000 th of where the population exists today. Ought to be interesting.

Party at CP's house!!

[coralpro]

Originally Posted by Leaguegolf

Party at CP's house!!

We can even have a great time having a fishing tournement on the lake before it freezes over.

[coralpro]

Originally Posted by stlcard_25

That's actually truth, but only because of statistical manipulation. 1998 was the hottest year on record, I believe (an El Nino year), so anything is bound to be cooler. You can make a case of cooling or warming if you pick any year in the last 10, probably.

I was speaking about the oceans cooling which according to the stats I read is the opposite. Now again I guess it would depend on where the reading took place. If it is taken around Greenland then that would be true because that is part of the global warming results. The ice melts cooling the water and thinning out the salinity slowing the conveyer currents which in turn means less warm water reaches the upper Atlantic which then allows the air around not to rise as high. Big darn circle effect. I've stated it may not been seen for many more years but the results are starting to show slowly and eventually they will take their toll.

[Texas Wedge]

Originally Posted by coralpro

Don't know where you are reading your facts but it sounds more like from a comic book or mad magazine. Some areas where sun is prevailent are becoming warmer as in the gulf and the edge of the Atlantic where the gulf meets up. That is the reason for the stronger storms incurred within the past years. During Katrina I believe it was reported by the National Weather Service that the gulf temperature was 1.1 degrees above normal. It takes alot for the oceans temperature to raise even 1 degree. Temperature change in the belt system changes weather all over the globe. Warmer currents cause iceburg melting which cools the belt which in turn slows the currents down as the slainity of the water starts to lower. We haven't seen the next iceage but if everything continues as it is it might be here before you know it. Global warming doesn't mean the whole world is in a sauna or a desert dry enviroment. Some will and some will see the total opposite until all will see the cold or extreme heat. Watch what happens if everyone in the world is restricted to an area 1/1,000,000 th of where the population exists today. Ought to be interesting.

The Mystery of Global Warming's Missing Heat : NPR

Just an FYI...

EDIT: See...I do know how to read!

[Diane]

Originally Posted by Texas Wedge

The Mystery of Global Warming's Missing Heat : NPR

Just an FYI...

Wow - I'm surprised that you're allowed to listen to NPR in Texas. I would have thought it would be blocked there.

[coralpro]

From the page you sent me to TW. Here's another study that has been going on.




Outlook for Oceans Bleak as Sea 'Deserts' Grow : NPR

[Texas Wedge]

Originally Posted by coralpro

TW, the only thing I see is you have a problem with Al Gore, period. The country leaders for years and years have said the only way to drop gas prices was to minimize consumption but how many in Washington car pool or use internet and teleconferencing or political campaigns? The government said much of the ozone breakdown was because of flourocarbons from R12 refrigerant being released into the atmosphere but the military was the worst violator. The world has lived by do as I say not do as I do for decades. You want to blame Gore? At least he has brought it to the forefront! I really don't like any politician but when someone uses common sense I do listen. I originally didn't believe in the global warming theory until I started to research it for myself. I now know it does and has existed for many years and even when confronted with the knowledge the question the people in control have is how do we stop it and still keep stuffing our pockets as well. Guess what most of them side with?

Oh, there's no doubt I have a problem with Igor...but I read and listen to discussions on the subject from various places and I am not convinced the scientists are right. I am not saying I refuse to attempt to lead a greener life, but I find it ludicrous that our politicians are now talking about adding a "green" tax to us working stiffs. And when I hear someone state there is irrefutable evidence of global warming, I laugh. I know there are a few scientists who came to a consensus (and don't make me go search and find the article that states how the IPCC consensus was really only x number of scientists who wrote conclusions on various aspects of their own personal research and another small group wrote the final consensus for all scientists involved), but I also know there are a growing number of scientists who are skeptical of drawing any hard conclusions from the data. And extrapolating the data into any kind of doomsday scenario is completely moronic, IMO. When the Earth came out of the ice age, it had to have been because it was heating up, right? But the heating didn't continue forever. It cycled, like it always does.

I truly believe this warming trend is just a cyclical behavior that in 500 years our great-grandchildren's great-grandchildren will be looking at and laughing at how we responded to a little warming cycle.

[Texas Wedge]

Originally Posted by coralpro

From the page you sent me to TW. Here's another study that has been going on.




Outlook for Oceans Bleak as Sea 'Deserts' Grow : NPR

From the page you sent me to, CP...

"In the next 10 years, maybe it could switch back," he says. "Until we get a much longer time series, we don't know."

[coralpro]

Originally Posted by Texas Wedge

The Mystery of Global Warming's Missing Heat : NPR

Just an FYI...

EDIT: See...I do know how to read!

This article basically says they are checking in the wrong place. Deep depths are going to get colder as iceburgs melt and Greenland and Antarctica aren't the only places where ice sheets or glaciers are melting. They need to also consider the Arctic and the Himalaya region as well. So it definitely is a combination of lots of occurrences that are showing the results of global warming.

[Diane]

Originally Posted by Texas Wedge

I find it ludicrous that our politicians are now talking about adding a "green" tax to us working stiffs.

Slight threadjack, but considering we already pay luxury and sin taxes - why would a green tax surprise you?

[Texas Wedge]

Originally Posted by Diane

Slight threadjack, but considering we already pay luxury and sin taxes - why would a green tax surprise you?

I'm not surprised...I'm annoyed. What's next? A breathing tax? A fat tax? A thin tax? A deaf tax? Where does it end? I am getting so tired of all the new taxes they keep coming up with just to make it harder for us working stiffs to make ends meet. The more successful you are...the more they want to tax you ("we'll tax the rich"...even though they're idea of rich sounds a lot like anyone over the poverty line to me). It gets old knowing that you're working 40% of the year just to make enough money to pay your taxes.

[coralpro]

Originally Posted by Texas Wedge

From the page you sent me to, CP...

"In the next 10 years, maybe it could switch back," he says. "Until we get a much longer time series, we don't know."

Sure but all the signs point to it. Will we ever know positives until it is past the point of no return. Generally if you notice something different by feel or sound with your car that is different you don't wait til it breaks to check it out or there may be excessive damage that can't be undone. No different with the planet except you can't go to autozone to get a new one.

[Texas Wedge]

Originally Posted by coralpro

Sure but all the signs point to it. Will we ever know positives until it is past the point of no return. Generally if you notice something different by feel or sound with your car that is different you don't wait til it breaks to check it out or there may be excessive damage that can't be undone. No different with the planet except you can't go to autozone to get a new one.

Of course not...you to go Randall Reed's Planet Ford in Humble, Texas!

J/K of course. I understand what you're saying. Like I said, I'll make an effort to improve my "greenliness", but I'm not sure we really know if what we do has any real major impact on anything. I can see the possibility that we're having a MINOR influence on things, but there are so many more factors than simply the population and our cars, that I believe our influence is greatly overstated by those hoping to either tax the life out of us or make insane profits off of us. Besides, I hate the hypocrisy of those making the new laws and creating the new taxes and all.

Life doesn't come with mulligans...and neither does the planet.

[coralpro]

Originally Posted by Texas Wedge

Of course not...you to go Randall Reed's Planet Ford in Humble, Texas!

J/K of course. I understand what you're saying. Like I said, I'll make an effort to improve my "greenliness", but I'm not sure we really know if what we do has any real major impact on anything. I can see the possibility that we're having a MINOR influence on things, but there are so many more factors than simply the population and our cars, that I believe our influence is greatly overstated by those hoping to either tax the life out of us or make insane profits off of us. Besides, I hate the hypocrisy of those making the new laws and creating the new taxes and all.

Life doesn't come with mulligans...and neither does the planet.

I believe we are on the same line of thinking and there is others ways they can do it without taxation. It's called getting rid of fat pocketbooks. Very little we do will change anything at all but nations have to decide something and hopefully sooner than later.

[Texas Wedge]

Don't believe in Global Warming? Or don't think man is the primary cause of it? YOU'RE A MORON!!! (so sayeth the great and powerful Oz...I mean, AL GORE)

Confronted by Stahl with the fact some prominent people, including the nation’s vice president, are not convinced that global warming is man-made, Gore responds: "You're talking about Dick Cheney. I think that those people are in such a tiny, tiny minority now with their point of view, they’re almost like the ones who still believe that the moon landing was staged in a movie lot in Arizona and those who believe the world is flat,” says Gore. "That demeans them a little bit, but it's not that far off," he tells Stahl.

From the article Gore's Message To Climate Change Skeptics, Tells 60 Minutes That Doubting Global Warming Is Man-Made Is Akin To Believing Earth Is Flat - CBS News

[Diane]

Originally Posted by Texas Wedge

Like I said, I'll make an effort to improve my "greenliness", but I'm not sure we really know if what we do has any real major impact on anything.

I'm going slightly off track here, but I think you should think in terms of sustainability instead of being "green". Buy local products, keep your money in the local economy and support independent businesses. Reuse and recycle too. Take a look at Freecycle - I'm sure there is one in your community - I know Savage mentioned it in another thread. Here's an easy one - get a reusable aluminum water bottle for the course - I like the Sigg ones the best - mine is pink with Hello Kitty on it. These things are all easy and will not only make you feel good, but you're being "green" with very little effort on your part.

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by Diane

I'm going slightly off track here, but I think you should think in terms of sustainability instead of being "green". Buy local products, keep your money in the local economy and support independent businesses. Reuse and recycle too. Take a look at Freecycle - I'm sure there is one in your community - I know Savage mentioned it in another thread. Here's an easy one - get a reusable aluminum water bottle for the course - I like the Sigg ones the best - mine is pink with Hello Kitty on it. These things are all easy and will not only make you feel good, but you're being "green" with very little effort on your part.

Lisa S. couldn't have stated it better.

[coralpro]

I drink out of recyclable aluminum beer cans. Does that count? I also urinate outdoors quite often as to conserve water which saves power plant utilization costs.

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by coralpro

I drink out of recyclable aluminum beer cans. Does that count? I also urinate outdoors quite often as to conserve water which saves power plant utilization costs.

CP- saving the planet one tinkle at a time.

[Texas Wedge]

Originally Posted by coralpro

I drink out of recyclable aluminum beer cans. Does that count? I also urinate outdoors quite often as to conserve water which saves power plant utilization costs.

Now that I know HOW to be more green, I'll do my best to be GREEN!!

[coralpro]

Originally Posted by Texas Wedge

Now that I know HOW to be more green, I'll do my best to be GREEN!!

See! We all can do so much, with so little effort.

[TTUfirebird2008]

Option 4 in the poll fits my view perfectly. The Little Ice Age, which occurred during the Middle Ages, is proof that global warming can be a naturally occurring problem that leads to volatile weather conditions. But I do think we are making things worse. I don't know if we are making it bad enough to end the world or whatever the doomsday predictions are, but I do think we're making it worse. We can do better than we are in terms of researching and developing more efficient lifestyles.

[coralpro]

This from my At&T news page.

AT&T

[GolfSavage]

Anybody still want to post the question "What would Al Gore have to gain by not being truthful about global warming?"

Newsmax.com - Gore Has Personal Stake in Anti-Warming Campaign

And yes, I know it's Newsmax.com, but before you discount it simply because they reported it, watch and listen to Mr. Gore yourself:

TED | Talks | Al Gore: New thinking on the climate crisis (video)

What Newsmax quoted starts around the 15 minute mark.

[coralpro]

Originally Posted by GolfSavage

Anybody still want to post the question "What would Al Gore have to gain by not being truthful about global warming?"

Newsmax.com - Gore Has Personal Stake in Anti-Warming Campaign

And yes, I know it's Newsmax.com, but before you discount it simply because they reported it, watch and listen to Mr. Gore yourself:

TED | Talks | Al Gore: New thinking on the climate crisis (video)

What Newsmax quoted starts around the 15 minute mark.

Better yet what would he gain by being truthful----the same thing. Investing in what you believe the future is and where it should go is only wise and because someone has the funds to invest in the correct direction doesn't make it a bad thing. What I heard and saw was someone pushing for the types of changes needed and not the particular companies he has stocks in. Would it have been wrong for someone to believe the hoola hoop was a great fitness gadget and would take off like crazy and to invest in the company that had its patent? Someone always makes money off advertisements and sales but as long as the gain is worth more than the investment then what is considered evil about that? It is much better to think someone gains monetarily by doing the right thing than to gain by illegal or wrongful intentions just for the sake of making money.

[GolfSavage]

Originally Posted by coralpro

Better yet what would he gain by being truthful----the same thing. Investing in what you believe the future is and where it should go is only wise and because someone has the funds to invest in the correct direction doesn't make it a bad thing. What I heard and saw was someone pushing for the types of changes needed and not the particular companies he has stocks in. Would it have been wrong for someone to believe the hoola hoop was a great fitness gadget and would take off like crazy and to invest in the company that had its patent? Someone always makes money off advertisements and sales but as long as the gain is worth more than the investment then what is considered evil about that? It is much better to think someone gains monetarily by doing the right thing than to gain by illegal or wrongful intentions just for the sake of making money.

If his investments and recommendations were based solely on the desire to come up with alternative energy sources or ways to avoid wasting resources, that would all be fine and dandy. But Gore and his ilk are pushing the fear tactics of doomsday predictions and wanting the governments to help fund and legislate in support of their endeavors. Instead of letting the market decide and giving people a choice, it is being driven down our throats and forced upon us based on unproven theories and "Chicken Little" reactionaries.

[coralpro]

Originally Posted by GolfSavage

If his investments and recommendations were based solely on the desire to come up with alternative energy sources or ways to avoid wasting resources, that would all be fine and dandy. But Gore and his ilk are pushing the fear tactics of doomsday predictions and wanting the governments to help fund and legislate in support of their endeavors. Instead of letting the market decide and giving people a choice, it is being driven down our throats and forced upon us based on unproven theories and "Chicken Little" reactionaries.

Only because he believes in what he is recommending. Without the "chicken little" analogy you referred to then nothing will be done, as everyone is out for themselves. Using the fact that he has investments in those areas only shows he believes in them. How else would a person better show their belief or support than invest in what they are saying and pushing. It would be far more doubtful if all of his investments were in coal and oil and preaching against their use. Negative people will always find a cop-out for why they don't want to agree with something even when common sense and science backs it up. I honestly believe he feels much like I do in that without the urgency people will just treat it like we need to do something about that, eventually.

[mr3856a]

Originally Posted by Texas Wedge

LOL!!! That's my point!! You guys all say THIS guy is a lunatic, but if his name happened to be Al Gore he would be "saving the planet." I give this guy as much credence as Al Gore because there are just as many skeptics who the media ignore or dismiss simply because they disagree with Al.

I think your real hangup is not with global warming and whether it's real or not, but rather with Al.

[mr3856a]

Originally Posted by GolfSavage

If his investments and recommendations were based solely on the desire to come up with alternative energy sources or ways to avoid wasting resources, that would all be fine and dandy. But Gore and his ilk are pushing the fear tactics of doomsday predictions and wanting the governments to help fund and legislate in support of their endeavors.

Hmmmmmm, who else could we accuse of this?

[GolfSavage]

Originally Posted by mr3856a

Hmmmmmm, who else could we accuse of this?

Well, that's what I find so ironic. If they do it it's evil, but if Gore does it he's the "Goracle of Delphi" whose words are sacred and intentions pure.