Club Spray that shows where on the club you hit

[Mprezd]

Just out of interest, I just wanted to know if there would be any problems in using this when playing a round? Is it an aid as such that would be deemed cheating if used?

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by Mprezd

Just out of interest, I just wanted to know if there would be any problems in using this when playing a round? Is it an aid as such that would be deemed cheating if used?

My guess is that it's a rules violation. I know water & greasy substances on the clubface supposedly decrease side spin, any spin really, which artificially reduces the magnitude of mis-hits. I'll let one of our rules gurus cite chapter & verse.

[pick-it-up]

All I could find-

No, Rule 4-2b states that foreign material must not be applied to the club face for the purpose of influencing the movement of the ball. Any coating designed to influence the movement of the ball by either increasing or decreasing spin, or to have any other effect on performance is not permitted.

[coralpro]

There was the one that states no chalk can be added and another that says no coating or tape can be placed on the top of the clubhead to reduce glare. If you look at the general concept of what they imply then an additive put on as a coating is either going to reduce glare or alter the flight of the ball from the normal surface the club face has.

[Mprezd]

Originally Posted by coralpro

There was the one that states no chalk can be added and another that says no coating or tape can be placed on the top of the clubhead to reduce glare. If you look at the general concept of what they imply then an additive put on as a coating is either going to reduce glare or alter the flight of the ball from the normal surface the club face has.

So then you argue that you didn't do it for those purposes and just say you did it for x reason and bob's your uncle....

[arizonagolfnut]

Originally Posted by Mprezd

Just out of interest, I just wanted to know if there would be any problems in using this when playing a round? Is it an aid as such that would be deemed cheating if used?

If your going to use it as a tool in a practice round and not count the round in your handi, I'd say its harmless. My opinion may or may not be against the rules, but you got to experiment somewhere! If your like me, then I always get a better feel for clubs and stuff during a round, instead of the driving range.

[pick-it-up]

Originally Posted by arizonagolfnut

If your like me, then I always get a better feel for clubs and stuff during a round, instead of the driving range.

Exactly!

You don't get into a groove, the turf is usually different. Your lies and stances will be different as well.

[coralpro]

Like a judge once told me "ignorance of the law is no excuse". Yeah, but judge " I can't read".

[Wazmankg]

A lot of the rules have those "for the purpose of" intent clauses, but I think we're all considered guilty until proven innocent under the rules of golf when you get right down to it.

[valeogut]

I checked the Rules and Decisions section of the USGA website and came up with a decision that's closest to what you describe: This is Rule 4-2, decision 3.

4-2/3 Applying Chalk to Club Face


Q. During a round, may a player apply chalk to the face of an iron club in order to obtain more backspin?

A. No.

Now, I know that you're applying the material only to see where contact is being made, but any material applied to the club face may be interpreted as influencing in some way the playing characteristics of the club and result in objections from an opponent in any official competition. To be safe, I wouldn't use the spray you describe in anything but a practice round.

Just for kicks I think I'll submit your question to the USGA.

[atticusfinch]

Originally Posted by valeogut

I checked the Rules and Decisions section of the USGA website and came up with a decision that's closest to what you describe: This is Rule 4-2, decision 3.



Now, I know that you're applying the material only to see where contact is being made, but any material applied to the club face may be interpreted as influencing in some way the playing characteristics of the club and result in objections from an opponent in any official competition. To be safe, I wouldn't use the spray you describe in anything but a practice round.

Just for kicks I think I'll submit your question to the USGA.

The words mean what they say. Your quoted decision says the chalk is applied to gain spin. Is the spray in this case designed for increased spin or another purpose? If so the decisoin will not apply here because there is no claim the material was applied to influence the spin of the ball.


The question in this case is what is the purpose of the spray? The answer is to provide the player with input on how his swing is performing, right? So does that change the playing characteristics of the club, or is it something else..like an artificial device?

[valeogut]

Originally Posted by atticusfinch

The words mean what they say. Your quoted decision says the chalk is applied to gain spin. Is the spray in this case designed for increased spin or another purpose? If so the decisoin will not apply here because there is no claim the material was applied to influence the spin of the ball.


The question in this case is what is the purpose of the spray? The answer is to provide the player with input on how his swing is performing, right? So does that change the playing characteristics of the club, or is it something else..like an artificial device?

You are exactly right. That decision was the closest I could find to the situation of adding talc or spray or something that could indicate ball contact, but it does not address the application of the substance for that precise purpose.

I was simply speculating that if the added material changed the playing characteristics of the club in any way, that could be interpreted as a rules violation, particularly if the same spray wasn't used consistently during a competitive round. I could be completely "out of bounds" here, and I don't claim to be a rules guru.

[JPsuff]

.


I agree with the concept of intent.

From what I'm reading here, the application of the spray is strictly for purposes of gaining feedback and the intent is not to enhance the player's ability to hit a shot or alter the club to do so.

It seems to me that the rules of golf address foreign substances or club alterations in the sense that adding such substances or making any alterations would be done so as to gain some sort of advantage. The intent here is to gain feedback or obtain data, not to gain any advantage. Now I suppose that it could be argued that gaining such data during a round might influence how a future shot might be played based upon the data gleaned from a similar shot made earlier, and that could be construed as gaining an advantage, but again it boils down to intent.

If I were playing in a competitive round, I would stay away from such things just to avoid any controversy. But I do understand what Mprezd is getting at and in spirit I agree. I just wouldn't risk disqualification for it.



-JP

[Fourputt]

It's not something that I would do in a round that counted for something. I don't think that much is gained by doing so out on the course anyway, as you aren't really going to be able to do anything about it.

I have to add that if I'm playing match against someone doing that, I'm going to take the money to the bank. If you're messing around with your swing, then you sure aren't focused on the game at hand....

[Mprezd]

Thanks for all your comments. Pretty much every one of my rounds counts toward handicap - so there aren't many 'practice rounds' to be fair. If it was an actual tournie I wouldn't do it though.

[valeogut]

Here is the reply I received from the USGA this morning, regarding the use of a spray or talc applied to the club face only to determine contact during a competitive round:

While the player did not breach Rule 4-2a or 4-2b based on the reason he
provided, use of a spray or talc powder in that manner would be
considered a breach of Rule 14-3a of the Rules of Golf. The spray or
talc, applied to the club in that manner, would be considered an
artificial device which might assist the player in making a stroke or in
his game.

Additionally, Rule 5a, Appendix II of the Rules of Golf provides that
any treatment to the face or clubhead must not, among other things,
impart more or less spin to the ball than a standard face or have any
other effect which would unduly influence the movement of the ball.
This rule might also be applied to the application of the spray or talc.

Thanks for your inquiry.

J. Carter Rich
Manager, Equipment Standards
United States Golf Association

Bottom line: Use the spray, tape, talc, or other aids only in practice rounds.

[Bolt Fore]

Put the spray on the ball, then see where it marks the clubface. I say this because I put identifing marks on my ball and they often mark th e clubface.