Indicating Line of Play

[Fourputt]

A current discussion on another forum brought up an interesting question. I just thought I'd toss it out here and see what our consensus is on the topic. The discussion concerns the use of a laser pointer for a player's caddy or partner to help indicate the line of a putt. Just using it during the setup to point at a spot on the green, then turning it off when the player is ready to make his stroke. This is the applicable Rule:

Rule 8-2b

b. On the Putting Green
When the player’s ball is on the putting green, the player, his partner or either of their caddies may, before but not during the stroke, point out a line for putting, but in so doing the putting green must not be touched. A mark must not be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting.

Does the use of the laser pointer violate this or any other Rule of Golf?

[Ty_Webb]

I would say in the interests of equity with the no touching the green point, that it was in breach of the rule. Don't know though. It sounds to me like something for which a decision is required.

[Mashie Niblick]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Rule 8-2b

b. On the Putting Green
When the player’s ball is on the putting green, the player, his partner or either of their caddies may, before but not during the stroke, point out a line for putting, but in so doing the putting green must not be touched. A mark must not be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting.

I think the rules has been violated. The laser touches and places a mark the green.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Mashie Niblick

I think the rules has been violated. The laser touches and places a mark the green.

But it doesnt really do anything to change or affect the line of play. It does nothing to test the surface. You can point to a spot with your finger, even from 1/4 inch away, as long as you don't touch the green. With the laser nothing physically touchs or changes the putting surface. And the stipulation is that it is turned off before the stroke is made.

My feeling is that the INTENT of the rule is not violated, because nothing has been done that would assist the player in making his stroke, nor anything that would improve his line of play. All you are doing is pointing at a spot on the green. You could do the same thing with the shadow of your finger... point to a particular spot, then when the player is lined up, you move away. No penalty.

[Sinsation]

i don't think so. he can just as easily walk over and point at the spot without touching the green with his finger. obviously he can't leave the laser on, but i don't think the rules are broken here.

[atticusfinch]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

But it doesnt really do anything to change or affect the line of play. It does nothing to test the surface. You can point to a spot with your finger, even from 1/4 inch away, as long as you don't touch the green. With the laser nothing physically touchs or changes the putting surface. And the stipulation is that it is turned off before the stroke is made.

My feeling is that the INTENT of the rule is not violated, because nothing has been done that would assist the player in making his stroke, nor anything that would improve his line of play. All you are doing is pointing at a spot on the green. You could do the same thing with the shadow of your finger... point to a particular spot, then when the player is lined up, you move away. No penalty.

Don't you agree that it is the intent of the rule that the line of putt not be touched? Regardless of whether that assists the player or improves his line of play? The rule says the line must not be touched. I do not think we can add to that any qualifications. It is easy to argue that a light touching does not assist or improve, but that is not the intent of the rule. The rule is breached if the line is touched.

Now the issue at hand is whether a lazer beam "touches" the line. My feeling is that it does because light is a physical thing, unlike a shadow which is the absence of light. But we shall see...someone has put the question to the USGA.

[Wazmankg]

Good question. My take is that it's the same as a shadow and as such should be allowed. Isn't the point of not allowing touching due to the possibility that touching may leave a mark ?

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

Good question. My take is that it's the same as a shadow and as such should be allowed. Isn't the point of not allowing touching due to the possibility that touching may leave a mark ?

Ok rules guys, this raises another question for me. Is it legal for a caddy to position himself in such a way, during the stroke, that his shadow shows a target spot ?

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

Ok rules guys, this raises another question for me. Is it legal for a caddy to position himself in such a way, during the stroke, that his shadow shows a target spot ?

No... that is in the decisions. If he moves away before the stroke, then there is no penalty.

[valeogut]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

Isn't the point of not allowing touching due to the possibility that touching may leave a mark ?

I would say that this is correct. Any physical force exerted on the grass by finger, foot, club, etc. would probably leave a "mark" or slight indentation that could unfairly aid the golfer during his stroke and/or possibly affect the surface of the green and the path of the ball.

The laser point would leave nothing behind once turned off before the stroke.

[jcgolfpro]

It will be interesting to see what the NJ gestapo says.

A laser mark does not TOUCH the surface and does not change the playing characteristics which is what this rule is for. There is nothing physically done to the line of putt with a pointer. I would say that it is legal. Keep in mind, I use a few laser items in teaching and most of them don't show up outside anyway.