RofG, working for you or against you?

[Fileygolfer]

Seeing the number of people who contribute here, I thought I would throw this in the ring.
When have the RofG worked for you or against you?

I will start by telling the tale where they worked AGAINST me.

This tale took place about 25years ago, so the RofG have changed in that time.

I was playing in a qualifying round for a European Tour Event and came to the 17th knowing that I needed to finish Birdie, Birdie to have a chance to advance. I hit my tee shot down the left of this medium length par 4 and found my ball with only half of it showing directly behind a young tree. A row of about 15 trees, with all but the one I had finished behind were "Staked" so Free Relief was available from them. The guys I was playing with and I couldn't agree if I could get Free Relief or not so we called the Referee.
He said, No Stake - No Free Relief, so I decided to play it, meaning that I would take out the tree on my follow-through.
As I hit the ball there was a 'clunk' and I got a sharpe pain in my left wrist, the ball shot left and I snapped the young tree with my follow-through.
When I looked down I saw the remains of a broken stake in the ground.
I managed to make a 5 and then did birdie the last and missed qualifying by two shots.

After talking with the PGA Rules Officials after the round they admitted that I had been "Unlucky" and infact added a Recommendation and added to their Local Rules (PGA Rules). They wanting all young trees to be marked by Blue Stakes and all courses that held PGA Events to also mark any young trees where Free Relief was in force with Blue Paint or Rings.

[Bigvivec]

Is that a case of the rules working against you or just bad luck?


Somedays, I feel like ALL the rules are against me...no mulligans, no putting two balls in play then picking the best one, no gimmies after missing tap ins...it's unfair I tell you!

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Bigvivec

Is that a case of the rules working against you or just bad luck?


Somedays, I feel like ALL the rules are against me...no mulligans, no putting two balls in play then picking the best one, no gimmies after missing tap ins...it's unfair I tell you!

Bingo. The Rules didn't work against him. If the committee had been on the ball and properly inspected and set up the course, the situation would never have happened. You can't blame the rules for human error.

[Fileygolfer]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Bingo. The Rules didn't work against him. If the committee had been on the ball and properly inspected and set up the course, the situation would never have happened. You can't blame the rules for human error.

Unlucky? Human Error? or the RofG? it doesn't matter a ball finished in a position where Free Relief should have been available but wasn't.

The PGA noticed a problem within the RofG and added to their own Local Rules (PGA Rules) to cover this situation.

Today the European Tour and the PGA Tour will most likely employ people to look out for this type of thing but every Golf Course in the world will not. And seeing that more golf is played away from the Pro Tours the RofG should cover it but doesn't.

Most Courses have Local Rules that state that "Protected Trees" are indentified by Stakes, only a small few "PAINT" the actual trees.

If the incident happened today I would claim "EQUITY" and want Free Relief because it was evident that the tree should have been staked but for some reason the stake was not visable.
Then when I lifted the ball, the broken stake would be uncovered and all would be well.

[Ty_Webb]

Fileygolfer

My sympathies, but, in all fairness, do you think you deserved relief? The trees were put there to cause you a problem if you hit it there. You say if the stake hadn't been broken, you would have got relief, but equally if the trees were a bit older, you'd have been <word that doesn't breach policy> anyway. I guess basically all I mean is that if you had got relief, it would have been down to luck or the rules working very much for you. That you didn't isn't really the rules working against you, just not for you.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Fileygolfer

Unlucky? Human Error? or the RofG? it doesn't matter a ball finished in a position where Free Relief should have been available but wasn't.

The PGA noticed a problem within the RofG and added to their own Local Rules (PGA Rules) to cover this situation.

Today the European Tour and the PGA Tour will most likely employ people to look out for this type of thing but every Golf Course in the world will not. And seeing that more golf is played away from the Pro Tours the RofG should cover it but doesn't.

Most Courses have Local Rules that state that "Protected Trees" are identified by Stakes, only a small few "PAINT" the actual trees.

If the incident happened today I would claim "EQUITY" and want Free Relief because it was evident that the tree should have been staked but for some reason the stake was not visable.
Then when I lifted the ball, the broken stake would be uncovered and all would be well.

You always had the option to invoke Rule 3-3 and then put your case before the committee. That is ALWAYS an option if you have a dispute in stroke play. I've used this rule several times when playing with a competitor who was adamant about a certain procedure, even when I knew for a fact that he was wrong. The only thing I do when I play under that rule is to be absolutely certain that one of the two balls is guaranteed to be played within the rules (usually by playing the original ball as it lies to remove all doubt). Making proper use of this rule has saved my bacon more than once.

In your case, had you used 3-3, and if the committee knew what they were doing, I would think that they would (or should have) have ruled in your favor, for the sake of equity.

[Fileygolfer]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

In your case, had you used 3-3, and if the committee knew what they were doing, I would think that they would (or should have) have ruled in your favor, for the sake of equity.

As I said in the origional post. The Official Referee said "No Stake - No Drop" and (correct me if I am wrong) I couldn't lift the ball to see what it was sat on.

[Fourputt]

As I've never played with a referee I don't know the procedure, but can you still dispute it and take it to the committee? Could you still play a 2nd ball under 3-3 and bring your case to the committee before returning your card? Even the best rules officials in the world are wrong sometimes, and putting the case to the entire committee (especially after playing the original ball and making that discovery) might have gotten you the ruling you deserved in the first place.

As I said, I really don't know in this case... I don't know if the on the spot official's ruling is law.

[atticusfinch]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I don't know if the on the spot official's ruling is law.

The player may rely on the ruling of an offical and will not be found in breach of the rules if the official was wrong.

But in this case the player did not agree with the official so a second ball under 3-3 would have been appropriate and the end ruling would come from the committee.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by atticusfinch

The player may rely on the ruling of an offical and will not be found in breach of the rules if the official was wrong.

But in this case the player did not agree with the official so a second ball under 3-3 would have been appropriate and the end ruling would come from the committee.

Thank you. I was hoping that would be the case. We have all seen examples of some "unusual" on course rulings, usually in favor of the player. I was hoping that here was still some recourse if the ruling did not seem quite right.

It would likely end any possibility of being best friends with that official though, I guess....

[Fileygolfer]

On the Pro Tours there are usually TWO Rules Officials that can give a Ruling. If a players disagrees with the first Ruling, he can ask for the Senior Referee to confirm or overturn the origional Ruling before he hits his next shot.
99.9% of the Tour players take the first Ruling and get on with it (as I did) but will question it afterwards knowing that the Ruling will not be changed.

On the European Tour once the Rules Officials have made a Ruling, its Law even if they got it wrong.

Don't get mixed up with Rulings that have come about when a viewer\spectator have contacted the PGA Tour saying that they have seen something and the Officials take action.

[Darth Fader]

I hit a ball into a water logged bunker,couldnt drop the ball inside the bunker that didnt have water lying,had to drop it outside and drop a shot,all of wich was first cut rough or knee deep.