What's the Most Ridiculous Rule in Golf?

[JungleJ]

Originally Posted by Johneli

For me it's the idiotic rule of having to hit out of someone else's divot. Nothing like hitting the fairway and getting penalized!

You mean the fundamental principle of golf - play it as it lies?

In any case you are not penalised (in the Rules, penalties are either strokes, loss of holes, or DQ). You just get a less than perfect lie.

[Johneli]

Originally Posted by JungleJ

You mean the fundamental principle of golf - play it as it lies?

In any case you are not penalised (in the Rules, penalties are either strokes, loss of holes, or DQ). You just get a less than perfect lie.

Intellectually, I can appreciate that you should play it as it lies, but, no matter what anyone says to me, I just can't understand how hitting out of someone's divot after a perfect drive is a rational rule. To me, it's like a quarterback having to throw the ball from exactly where it was caught on the sideline after he had just completed a long pass. Just makes no sense. Should be able to lift it out and replace it no closer to the hole on grass.

[CG8]

Originally Posted by Johneli

For me it's the idiotic rule of having to hit out of someone else's divot. Nothing like hitting the fairway and getting penalized!

I tend to agree with you here brother . Last week I cannot remember which hole it was but Vijay hit a good drive down the fairway . David Feherty said he caught a tough break because he landed in what looked like an amatuers divot . Well Vijay hit the shot and yanked it way left of the green . I feel as long as you don't forward the ball further to the hole and you land in a divot you should be able to get a free drop . Why should you be penalized because of someones is too lazy to repair a divot ? That divot that Viajy was in was replaced but it was a weak piece of grass that was facing left . The pros get to lift and clean when the fairways are damp , I even think I seen a player , I think it was Vijay lift and clean a ball off the fairway just last week and I was wondering why he was able to do that . Did anyone else see that ?

[JungleJ]

Originally Posted by Johneli

Intellectually, I can appreciate that you should play it as it lies, but, no matter what anyone says to me, I just can't understand how hitting out of someone's divot after a perfect drive is a rational rule. To me, it's like a quarterback having to throw the ball from exactly where it was caught on the sideline after he had just completed a long pass. Just makes no sense. Should be able to lift it out and replace it no closer to the hole on grass.

Actually, some forms of football don't centre the football on every play.

In any case, the days of manicured fairways are relatively new. Thus the concepts of fairway and rough are barely if at all recognised in the Rules.

Consider this - if you hit a long but offline drive that comes to rest with a nice clean lie in the rough, do you decide that since you hit a bad drive you should be penalised and move it into the fescue? Somehow I doubt it. So why should the reverse be true.

And finally - how often do you hit a perfect drive into someone else's divot? Once every few seasons?

[CG8]

Originally Posted by JungleJ

And finally - how often do you hit a perfect drive into someone else's divot? Once every few seasons?

I am going to continue to stick my nose in this part of the conversation and put in my . I hope thats ok

"how often do you hit a perfect drive into someone else's divot"?

That is why I agree with johneli about being able to pick up your ball and move it out of a divot . If your ball is on a fairway sprinkler head you can move that . I think the same should happen if your ball is in the fairway and some clown did not replace a divot . I also realize a divot is different from a sprinkler head . If you land in a divot in the rough , I say play it as it lies . I have landed in a divot more than I would have like to and even though I am playing with my buddies for no money I play it as it lies and it really screws you up especially if you had a great drive and you end up chunking your 2nd shot and end up with a bogey . That really IMO .

[Johneli]

Originally Posted by JungleJ

Consider this - if you hit a long but offline drive that comes to rest with a nice clean lie in the rough, do you decide that since you hit a bad drive you should be penalised and move it into the fescue? Somehow I doubt it. So why should the reverse be true.

OK...you asked. Lemme give you what I consider to be a thoughtful answer: Because if a bad break in the fairway were due to let's say a tree in the middle of the fairway (like the one Vijay bounced AWAY from on Sunday) THEN I would agree. After all, there's the tree, and if you land behind it, it's your fault! A ball with a good break in the rough is not the same because the good break was not caused by another golfer's intervention in any way, whereas, If you hit a great drive, you shouldn't have to endure ANY obstructions to your next shot because of what another golfer has done. One is caused by another individual, the other is just "the breaks."

[JungleJ]

Originally Posted by Johneli

OK...you asked. Lemme give you what I consider to be a thoughtful answer: Because if a bad break in the fairway were due to let's say a tree in the middle of the fairway (like the one Vijay bounced AWAY from on Sunday) THEN I would agree. After all, there's the tree, and if you land behind it, it's your fault! A ball with a good break in the rough is not the same because the good break was not caused by another golfer's intervention in any way, whereas, If you hit a great drive, you shouldn't have to endure ANY obstructions to your next shot because of what another golfer has done. One is caused by another individual, the other is just "the breaks."

It's a good break, or a bad break. It is all just "the breaks". If you win a competition by one stroke because your opponent landed in a divot, that is the breaks too.

The reason everyone moans about this is because too often on TV they see the pros playing "Lift, clean, and replace". The Tour is WAY too lenient on this. The Majors only allow it in EXTREME conditions.

You play the course as you find it - that is the oldest tenet of the game and I can't see it changing.

[JungleJ]

Originally Posted by CG8

I have landed in a divot more than I would have like to .

But seriously, HOW often? 100 times a season? Once a round? Or, more likely, once a season or less, on average.

I reckon it has happened to me once in the last six seasons.

TBH I also reckon that I would rather land IN someone's divot than ON a recently repaired divot.

[CG8]

Originally Posted by JungleJ

But seriously, HOW often? 100 times a season? Once a round? Or, more likely, once a season or less, on average.

I reckon it has happened to me once in the last six seasons.

TBH I also reckon that I would rather land IN someone's divot than ON a recently repaired divot.

I am not trying to disagee with ok BUT your right , it don't happen often so that is why I think it should be legal to pick it up and move it . Maybe not on the PGA Tour but us hacks need all the help we can get . The game is already tough enough sometimes . I play strictly by the rules but this is a rule that needs to be changed . I heard years ago you could not even clean your ball on the green !

[Johneli]

Originally Posted by JungleJ

You play the course as you find it - that is the oldest tenet of the game and I can't see it changing.

I can't either, but that doesn't mean it's a rational, well-thought-out rule. Let's just say for an example that you're leading a tournament and you come to 18 and hit the perfect drive. When you get to your ball you are amazed to find it in the deepest divot you've ever seen in your life!! I mean this divot is 4 inches deep! It looks like the person who made it used a post hole digger instead of a golf club. The worst part is that your ball is lying up against the front edge of this crater of a divot and any shot you try will probably only go about 20 yards after an explosion. You lose the tournament by the one stroke you lost due to that divot. Fair? Does it really test your skills at golf....or did you just lose a tournament due to no fault of your own?

[JungleJ]

Originally Posted by Johneli

I can't either, but that doesn't mean it's a rational, well-thought-out rule. Let's just say for an example that you're leading a tournament and you come to 18 and hit the perfect drive. When you get to your ball you are amazed to find it in the deepest divot you've ever seen in your life!! I mean this divot is 4 inches deep! It looks like the person who made it used a post hole digger instead of a golf club. The worst part is that your ball is lying up against the front edge of this crater of a divot and any shot you try will probably only go about 20 yards after an explosion. You lose the tournament by the one stroke you lost due to that divot. Fair? Does it really test your skills at golf....or did you just lose a tournament due to no fault of your own?

Yes, it is FAIR. It may seem UNFAIR to you but in that the Rules apply equally to everybody in the competition, it is fair. There is a difference between FAIR and UNLUCKY.

I'm sorry but "play the course as you find it" is the very rational and well thought out. Otherwise we should just be allowed to tee it up for every shot.

[JungleJ]

Originally Posted by CG8

I am not trying to disagee with ok BUT your right , it don't happen often so that is why I think it should be legal to pick it up and move it . Maybe not on the PGA Tour but us hacks need all the help we can get . The game is already tough enough sometimes . I play strictly by the rules but this is a rule that needs to be changed . I heard years ago you could not even clean your ball on the green !

So in other words you would like to see the Rule changed so that the game becomes easier for you? That is a good reason, one that the USGA/R&A will take into consideration for the 2012 revision.

[CG8]

Originally Posted by JungleJ

So in other words you would like to see the Rule changed so that the game becomes easier for you? That is a good reason, one that the USGA/R&A will take into consideration for the 2012 revision.

I was joking around to make a point . No I am not saying for me , for anyone who plays golf and gets stuck in a man hole on the fairway . I believe in play it as it lies . But not in a divot . When I land in a divot I leave it there . Why do the pros get to get to play lift and clean when it's damp out ?

Maybe if the balls plugs in the fairway we should try and dig it out with a pitching wedge Landing in a divot does not happen often so I don't know why there cannot be a rule that gives you relief . I would rather hit out of a bunker than hit an iron of someones divot . Whatever , it's a rule that will never change . Just going to have to deal with it when it happens .

[Leaguegolf]

Originally Posted by CG8

David Feherty said he caught a tough break because he landed in what looked like an amatuers divot.

Amateur's divot? Feherty is good but he's not that good.

A divot is a divot is a divot........play it as it lies. I play a lot of golf and I only find myself in a divot a couple times a year, if that. Unlucky, yes. Unfair, no. I deal with it in hopes it will make me a better player.

[OnePutt]

JungleJ; You're a big believer in playing it as it lies, and playing the course as you find it. Well, if that's the case, why allow golfers to fix ball marks on the green? After all, if no one could fix a ball mark, it would be FAIR for everyone, wouldn't it? The same for raking bunkers. If you land in a bunker and the ball is resing at the bottom of a big foot print. IT'S YOUR FAULT, YOU LANDED YOUR BALL IN THE BUNKER. Would that fit with your "play it as you find it" ideal ? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole idea of a tourniment to find out who plays the best 4 rounds of golf? And to do that, you need to allow all golfers to play under the same conditions, at least as much as possible? You claim it's FAIR, because every golfer has to hit the ball on the same course, so every golfer could get a bad break and end up in a divot. That's quite tree. But it's not FAIR for the golfers in the last group to play if the guys in the early groups make divots in the fairway, and don't repair them. Then, the course is not the same, and that makes it "UNFAIR" for the last guys to play the course that day. What would be FAIR, would be to make the course as close to exactly the same for every golfer, from the first group to the last group. I believe that's the whole idea behind having the bunkers raked after every shot, and being able to fix ball marks on the green. I see no difference in this practice, and being able to move a ball 6 inches away from a big divot in the fairway. It would help to make the course more consistant for the last golfer as it was for the first golfer in the morning. All it would do is "leval" the playing field for everyone. You get relief from a sprinker head because it's a "MAN MADE OBSTACLE". I think we can all agree, that a divot is also MAN MADE. So why not get relief from them. If your ball goes in a rabbit hole, you get relief, and let's face facts, it's the same rabbit hole for everyone, so why allow relief from the hole when anyone could have found the same hole? It that fair? Be it fair or not, it's the rule.

[CG8]

Originally Posted by Leaguegolf

Unlucky, yes. Unfair, no. I deal with it in hopes it will make me a better player.

There you go , I think that sums it up the best . Just try and make the best of it . You can't always have luck on your side

[CG8]

Originally Posted by OnePutt

JungleJ; You're a big believer in playing it as it lies, and playing the course as you find it. Well, if that's the case, why allow golfers to fix ball marks on the green? You get relief from a sprinker head because it's a "MAN MADE OBSTACLE". I think we can all agree, that a divot is also MAN MADE. So why not get relief from them. If your ball goes in a rabbit hole, you get relief, and let's face facts, it's the same rabbit hole for everyone, so why allow relief from the hole when anyone could have found the same hole? It that fair? Be it fair or not, it's the rule.

Great points OnePutt lets just putt with grass and mud all over the ball , I guess they did that back in the day , we should be able to do that too . Lets just play off sprinkler heads why were at it

[JungleJ]

Originally Posted by OnePutt

JungleJ; You're a big believer in playing it as it lies, and playing the course as you find it. Well, if that's the case, why allow golfers to fix ball marks on the green? After all, if no one could fix a ball mark, it would be FAIR for everyone, wouldn't it? The same for raking bunkers. If you land in a bunker and the ball is resing at the bottom of a big foot print. IT'S YOUR FAULT, YOU LANDED YOUR BALL IN THE BUNKER. Would that fit with your "play it as you find it" ideal ? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole idea of a tourniment to find out who plays the best 4 rounds of golf? And to do that, you need to allow all golfers to play under the same conditions, at least as much as possible? You claim it's FAIR, because every golfer has to hit the ball on the same course, so every golfer could get a bad break and end up in a divot. That's quite tree. But it's not FAIR for the golfers in the last group to play if the guys in the early groups make divots in the fairway, and don't repair them. Then, the course is not the same, and that makes it "UNFAIR" for the last guys to play the course that day. What would be FAIR, would be to make the course as close to exactly the same for every golfer, from the first group to the last group. I believe that's the whole idea behind having the bunkers raked after every shot, and being able to fix ball marks on the green. I see no difference in this practice, and being able to move a ball 6 inches away from a big divot in the fairway. It would help to make the course more consistant for the last golfer as it was for the first golfer in the morning. All it would do is "leval" the playing field for everyone. You get relief from a sprinker head because it's a "MAN MADE OBSTACLE". I think we can all agree, that a divot is also MAN MADE. So why not get relief from them. If your ball goes in a rabbit hole, you get relief, and let's face facts, it's the same rabbit hole for everyone, so why allow relief from the hole when anyone could have found the same hole? It that fair? Be it fair or not, it's the rule.

First of all, there is no rule that says bunkers should be raked. In fact many would suggest that they should NOT be raked. In any case, you can only rake the bunker after you've played. No relief if you end up in someone's big footprint.

Second, in the Rules the green is different from the fairway. (Note that the Rules only delineate between the "green", "through the green" and "hazards"). Thus it makes complete sense that different Rules apply on the green and through the green.

Regarding holes made by burrowing animals, remember the context in which the Rules were originally formulated. It was deemed fair, when golf was routinely played in fields where deer or cattle grazed, to give relief for holes made by burrowing animals. Who are we to question that?

If this runs on much longer atticusfinch will have to get involved!

[Johneli]

Originally Posted by OnePutt

JungleJ; You're a big believer in playing it as it lies, and playing the course as you find it. Well, if that's the case, why allow golfers to fix ball marks on the green? After all, if no one could fix a ball mark, it would be FAIR for everyone, wouldn't it? The same for raking bunkers. If you land in a bunker and the ball is resing at the bottom of a big foot print. IT'S YOUR FAULT, YOU LANDED YOUR BALL IN THE BUNKER. Would that fit with your "play it as you find it" ideal ? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole idea of a tourniment to find out who plays the best 4 rounds of golf? And to do that, you need to allow all golfers to play under the same conditions, at least as much as possible? You claim it's FAIR, because every golfer has to hit the ball on the same course, so every golfer could get a bad break and end up in a divot. That's quite tree. But it's not FAIR for the golfers in the last group to play if the guys in the early groups make divots in the fairway, and don't repair them. Then, the course is not the same, and that makes it "UNFAIR" for the last guys to play the course that day. What would be FAIR, would be to make the course as close to exactly the same for every golfer, from the first group to the last group. I believe that's the whole idea behind having the bunkers raked after every shot, and being able to fix ball marks on the green. I see no difference in this practice, and being able to move a ball 6 inches away from a big divot in the fairway. It would help to make the course more consistant for the last golfer as it was for the first golfer in the morning. All it would do is "leval" the playing field for everyone. You get relief from a sprinker head because it's a "MAN MADE OBSTACLE". I think we can all agree, that a divot is also MAN MADE. So why not get relief from them. If your ball goes in a rabbit hole, you get relief, and let's face facts, it's the same rabbit hole for everyone, so why allow relief from the hole when anyone could have found the same hole? It that fair? Be it fair or not, it's the rule.

I wish I had thought of this arguement....it's really a good one!!