Hitting with the back side of an iron...legal?

[Texas Wedge]

If a RH person finds their ball close to a tree or bush where they can't take a right handed swing at it, can they turn around and swing the club left-handed at the ball? I know I've seen a pro do it, but they turned the club over so that they still hit the ball with the face of the club. Can you legally hit the ball with the back-side of a club?

[atticusfinch]

Originally Posted by Texas Wedge

If a RH person finds their ball close to a tree or bush where they can't take a right handed swing at it, can they turn around and swing the club left-handed at the ball? I know I've seen a pro do it, but they turned the club over so that they still hit the ball with the face of the club. Can you legally hit the ball with the back-side of a club?

You can answer your own question. Remember the rules should be interpreted literally.

The rules say: 14-1. Ball to Be Fairly Struck At. The ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club and must not be pushed, scraped or spooned.

There is no requirement on what side of the head must be used.

[Texas Wedge]

Originally Posted by atticusfinch

You can answer your own question. Remember the rules should be interpreted literally.

The rules say: 14-1. Ball to Be Fairly Struck At. The ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club and must not be pushed, scraped or spooned.

There is no requirement on what side of the head must be used.

Awesome! I hit a shot the other day when playing where I had to hit the ball left-handed and so I used the back of the iron to do it. It played well...I advanced it about 65 yards into the middle of the fairway, so I was thrilled. After the round I began wondering if that was legal or not. I finally remembered to post. Thanks for the answer!!

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by atticusfinch

You can answer your own question. Remember the rules should be interpreted literally.

The rules say: 14-1. Ball to Be Fairly Struck At. The ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club and must not be pushed, scraped or spooned.

There is no requirement on what side of the head must be used.

I have had this discussion before. I know that the rules don't strictly state anywhere that you can't hit the ball with the wrong side of the head, but the rules also say that a clubface cannot be concave (I think that's the right way round). If you hit with the back of say a putter that's an anser style head, then the bit you're hitting it with is concave and hence illegal. People have said that doesn't matter as it's not the clubface, so it's fine. I'd still be very wary of double hitting it as the ball hits the flange and then the back of the clubface itself.

[petermo]

The only club that can be 2 faced is the putter which is why the Bulls Eye was quite a handy rescue club in its day. However, the Ping Anser only has one face which is not concave - the fact that you hit the ball with the back of the clubhead does not make the club illegal nor will you incur any penalty for using an illegal club.

The old Ping Eye 2 long irons also had a useful "reverse" side and I could get quite a fair distance with them.

[Martini78]

I know putting with the back of an Anser-style putter is not illegal because I've seen many pro's brush in short putts that way... in fact, I recall seeing Hensby do it on Saturday.

Turning the club around, toe-down to hit a shot left-handed is a lower percentage shot, but the benefit to it is that a player can actually hit a shot with loft on the club. If you hit a right-handed iron lefty, you generally hit toppers (using the back of the iron). In a Golf Digest article from last year, I recall Tiger stating he practices the toe-down lefty shot. He uses a 7-iron and can hit shots of 100-yards or more with some deal of consistency.

[atticusfinch]

Originally Posted by Ty_Webb

I have had this discussion before. I know that the rules don't strictly state anywhere that you can't hit the ball with the wrong side of the head, but the rules also say that a clubface cannot be concave (I think that's the right way round). If you hit with the back of say a putter that's an anser style head, then the bit you're hitting it with is concave and hence illegal. People have said that doesn't matter as it's not the clubface, so it's fine. I'd still be very wary of double hitting it as the ball hits the flange and then the back of the clubface itself.

Partially correct. The face cannot be concave. If the back is concave it is not non conforming.

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by atticusfinch

Partially correct. The face cannot be concave. If the back is concave it is not non conforming.

Yeah, I know. I just don't think I agree with the thinking (I'm not saying your thinking is wrong, I'm saying I think the rules are wrong). To my mind, if you're hitting the ball with the back of the club, then the back of the club has become the clubface.

If you were then to hit the ball with the concave back of a club, how could you claim that you hadn't double hit it? If memory serves, the reason they banned concave clubfaces in the first place was because it caused a double hit. The flange bit pops the ball up in the air, then the back bit hits it forward.

[atticusfinch]

Originally Posted by Ty_Webb

Yeah, I know. I just don't think I agree with the thinking (I'm not saying your thinking is wrong, I'm saying I think the rules are wrong). To my mind, if you're hitting the ball with the back of the club, then the back of the club has become the clubface.

If you were then to hit the ball with the concave back of a club, how could you claim that you hadn't double hit it? If memory serves, the reason they banned concave clubfaces in the first place was because it caused a double hit. The flange bit pops the ball up in the air, then the back bit hits it forward.

I think concave was banned because it acted like a scoop, like jai lai rackets.

[Bulls9999]

Are you talking about what Greg Norman just did in the European Tour's tournament this weekend that Darren Clarke won? The GC showed Norman, close to a tree, and hitting backwards, by hitting his wedge on end, facing backwards, and just swinging the club forward and down ward on the ball hitting it behind him to the fairway (I guess in retrospect, he didn't hit it backwards). OK, but didn't Adam Scott do that at the Doral? when he was too close to the flowers, hit his iron left-handed?

Originally Posted by Texas Wedge

If a RH person finds their ball close to a tree or bush where they can't take a right handed swing at it, can they turn around and swing the club left-handed at the ball? I know I've seen a pro do it, but they turned the club over so that they still hit the ball with the face of the club. Can you legally hit the ball with the back-side of a club?

[Fileygolfer]

A number of years ago I played in a big Charity Pro-Am.
Brian Close (ex England Cricket Captain) was playing that day. Brian played both ways and was 7Hcp R/H'd and 5Hcp L/H'd, he chose to play R/H'd that day to get the extra shots but he also caused a PGA Discussion afterwards.
He hit it close to a tree, flipped the club over and knocked the ball out L/H'd. A local idiot and member of the host club told the organisers (PGA & "The Variety Club of Great Britain") what he did and made a fuss.

The official outcome was announced and no action was taken against Brian. All scores stood.
"Brian Close had not acted in anyway that was believed to have given him any unfair advantage over the rest of the field, he had hit ONE shot L/H'd, but with a R/H'd club, just like any R/H'd golfer can, the fact that Brian is better at executing that type of shot should not be held against him."

Now this goes to show that sometimes 'Sense' is put first.

[GolfSavage]

Originally Posted by Fileygolfer

A number of years ago I played in a big Charity Pro-Am.
Brian Close (ex England Cricket Captain) was playing that day. Brian played both ways and was 7Hcp R/H'd and 5Hcp L/H'd, he chose to play R/H'd that day to get the extra shots but he also caused a PGA Discussion afterwards.
He hit it close to a tree, flipped the club over and knocked the ball out L/H'd. A local idiot and member of the host club told the organisers (PGA & "The Variety Club of Great Britain") what he did and made a fuss.

The official outcome was announced and no action was taken against Brian. All scores stood.
"Brian Close had not acted in anyway that was believed to have given him any unfair advantage over the rest of the field, he had hit ONE shot L/H'd, but with a R/H'd club, just like any R/H'd golfer can, the fact that Brian is better at executing that type of shot should not be held against him."

Now this goes to show that sometimes 'Sense' is put first.

Ah, yes, isn't it a shame that "common" sense is such a rarity? Nice to know it still prevails from time to time.

[Batteaux]

Originally Posted by Ty_Webb

then the back of the club has become the clubface.

Regardless of what you do the back of the club cannot become the club face. That is akin to backing up with your car and the trunk becomes the hood?

[atticusfinch]

Originally Posted by GolfSavage

Ah, yes, isn't it a shame that "common" sense is such a rarity? Nice to know it still prevails from time to time.

There is no rule that says a player must play with either hand and no rule that says he must play with the same hand he started, even if it gave him an overwhelming advantage on the field.

[petermo]

However, if an ambi dextrous player has obtained a handicap for each 'wing' and they are different the (oft ngelected) "spirit of the game would apply and if he was acting contrary to the spirit by entering on one handicap and playing the other way round the committee wuld be within its rights to sanction him - probably by suspending him for cheating.

It would not apply to Brian Close since it wouldn't be cricket!

[GolfSavage]

Originally Posted by atticusfinch

There is no rule that says a player must play with either hand and no rule that says he must play with the same hand he started, even if it gave him an overwhelming advantage on the field.

Sorry, but did my comments on the tournament officals making the right call infer otherwise?

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by Batteaux

Regardless of what you do the back of the club cannot become the club face. That is akin to backing up with your car and the trunk becomes the hood?

Okay, so to you and atticus, if you used the back of your putter to get out of an awkward spot and someone accused you of double-hitting it, what would you say?

[JungleJ]

Originally Posted by petermo

However, if an ambi dextrous player has obtained a handicap for each 'wing' and they are different the (oft ngelected) "spirit of the game would apply and if he was acting contrary to the spirit by entering on one handicap and playing the other way round the committee wuld be within its rights to sanction him - probably by suspending him for cheating.

It would not apply to Brian Close since it wouldn't be cricket!

I don't know how it is anywhere else but according to the RCGA handicap manual, a player can only have one handicap. The RCGA (Canada) system is based on the USGA's so I imagine it might well be the same. Also the handicap to be used is the lower since the index is based on best play.

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by JungleJ

I don't know how it is anywhere else but according to the RCGA handicap manual, a player can only have one handicap. The RCGA (Canada) system is based on the USGA's so I imagine it might well be the same. Also the handicap to be used is the lower since the index is based on best play.

There's a guy I know who plays off scratch right-handed. Then he got injured and couldn't play right-handed for a while, so he played left-handed. He went and spoke to the committee of his club about it and pointed out that if they made him play off his right-hand handicap, then his handicap would go up and it would mean that he would then be too high when he could play right-handed again. Some of them were reluctant, but let him put in three cards left-handed. They gave him I think a six handicap left-handed. Couple of months later, he had a really good round and shot about one over in a club competition. He knew this was going to cause trouble, so he filled in his card, but didn't sign it and circled the signature box to make it obvious he hadn't signed it, meaning that they could apply the score for his handicap, but that he'd be disqualified and so wouldn't win. They flipped out and stopped letting him have two handicaps. All it meant in the end was that he won a couple of things once he was back to playing right-handed again. So, it does kind of make sense to let people have two handicaps.

[Fileygolfer]

If you go back a number of years, local Sportsmen used to do a lot for Charity. Today, with fitness etc, they do very little away from there own Sport.

Yorkshire had some very good Charity Events which included 'Stars' taking part in other sports. I remember facing Freddie Truman once in a Cricket game, and lived to tell the tale.

Anyway Brian Close was left handed and challenged himself to get the same Hcp playing both ways, I think another Cricketer Ted Dexter got to scratch both ways and Brian wanted to do that too.