Identifying your ball

[Fourputt]

(Atticus Finch... give the others a chance before you lay the answer on them )

Scenario:

In stroke play, a player hit his tee shot into an area where there is a lateral water hazard, but there is also some deep rough which is not part of the hazard, and it is the consensus of the group that his ball probably did not go into the hazard. He elects to play a provisional ball just in case his first ball is lost through the green. Without thinking he plays a ball which is identical to and indistinguishable from the first one, and it heads in the same general direction as the first ball. When he gets there he finds both balls. One is unplayable in the hazard, the other is playable in the rough just 10 feet away.

Question: Which ball is in play and how many strokes does it lie?

[Fileygolfer]

Please sir,

Can I have a go?

Please, Please!!!!!!!

No I think I know the answer but will wait.

[Ty_Webb]

Oo, interesting. I would not have guessed that. I looked it up, so won't say, but that surprised me.

And, I have to say even more bizarre when you consider what to do if both balls are in the hazard.

[GolfSavage]

The player gets to decide which ball is which, and plays it accordingly.

Edit: OK, looked it up and my thinking was right, but I wrote it improperly making it read like the player can decide which is provisional and which is original. That's not right. Since I messed it up, I'll let someone else answer it properly to make sure there is no confusion.

[straightshooter]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Scenario:

In stroke play, a player hit his tee shot into an area where there is a lateral water hazard, but there is also some deep rough which is not part of the hazard, and it is the consensus of the group that his ball probably did not go into the hazard. He elects to play a provisional ball just in case his first ball is lost through the green. Without thinking he plays a ball which is identical to and indistinguishable from the first one, and it heads in the same general direction as the first ball. When he gets there he finds both balls. One is unplayable in the hazard, the other is playable in the rough just 10 feet away.

Question: Which ball is in play and how many strokes does it lie?

I will do what I do on the course: Wing it with the rules, and look it up later (even though I do carry the rules in the bag!):

I think the group consensus stands: The ball found in the rough is deemed to be the first ball. The ball in the hazard is deemed to be the provisional ball. The player hits the ball found in the rough for his 2nd shot.

[JungleJ]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

(Atticus Finch... give the others a chance before you lay the answer on them )

Scenario:

In stroke play, a player hit his tee shot into an area where there is a lateral water hazard, but there is also some deep rough which is not part of the hazard, and it is the consensus of the group that his ball probably did not go into the hazard. He elects to play a provisional ball just in case his first ball is lost through the green. Without thinking he plays a ball which is identical to and indistinguishable from the first one, and it heads in the same general direction as the first ball. When he gets there he finds both balls. One is unplayable in the hazard, the other is playable in the rough just 10 feet away.

Question: Which ball is in play and how many strokes does it lie?

It was OK to play the provisional because the ball could have been lost outside the hazard. However, if the original was found in the water hazard, the provisional must be abandoned.

In this case, I am having difficulty working out which ball is in play, but he is lying one either way - either his original ball is in the hazard and the provisional must be abandoned, or his original ball is not in the hazard and he pockets the provisional. I'm guessing that there is nothing stopping him from merely claiming the ball outside the hazard is his original ball, or if he deems it advantageous, to claim the ball in the hazard is in play.

[Bulls9999]

Hmmm....just guessing here. I would say, since both balls are there, the provisional is abandoned, one must be the original, so the original is not lost. The question becomes, which is the original ball and which is the provisional (which must be abandoned because the original one must be there since there's two of them). I would think there is some penalty if you can't determine which is which. If you accidentally play the provisional, you run the consequence of playing with the wrong ball. Still haven't figured out what the outcome is.

[Fourputt]

Here's a hint... look through the decisions on Rule 27.

If I hadn't just been reading them as I was trying to answer a similar question I'd have gotten it wrong too by winging it.

[KC Mike]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Scenario:

In stroke play, a player hit his tee shot into an area where there is a lateral water hazard, but there is also some deep rough which is not part of the hazard, and it is the consensus of the group that his ball probably did not go into the hazard. He elects to play a provisional ball just in case his first ball is lost through the green. Without thinking he plays a ball which is identical to and indistinguishable from the first one, and it heads in the same general direction as the first ball. When he gets there he finds both balls. One is unplayable in the hazard, the other is playable in the rough just 10 feet away.

Question: Which ball is in play and how many strokes does it lie?

I don't know if this has been answered correctly or not, but here is what I think: Since neither shot can be identified, both balls are considered lost and the player goes back to the tee to hit his fifth shot.

This reminds me of when I heard the example of two people hitting the same type (brand, model and number) that is either marked exactly the same, or not marked at all, in other words, "identical." Both hit shots where the balls end up touching. Neither can identify a ballas their own, so both balls, even though sitting right there, are considered lost. (Now this was a long time ago so there may have been some decision which changes this, or I am totally messed up and I have no idea what I am talking about! - - - which would not surprise me! hehehe)

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Here's a hint... look through the decisions on Rule 27.

If I hadn't just been reading them as I was trying to answer a similar question I'd have gotten it wrong too by winging it.

Once someone has come up with it, could you share your thoughts on the situation if both balls are in the hazard?

Funnily enough, my thoughts on the original question are what the decision states as the strict interpretation, but then says something about changing that in equity. Namely that you can't ascertain either ball as the original or the provisional, so both are lost. That would have been my guess.

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by KC Mike

I don't know if this has been answered correctly or not, but here is what I think: Since neither shot can be identified, both balls are considered lost and the player goes back to the tee to hit his fifth shot.

This reminds me of when I heard the example of two people hitting the same type (brand, model and number) that is either marked exactly the same, or not marked at all, in other words, "identical." Both hit shots where the balls end up touching. Neither can identify a ballas their own, so both balls, even though sitting right there, are considered lost. (Now this was a long time ago so there may have been some decision which changes this, or I am totally messed up and I have no idea what I am talking about!)

As I just said, that was my thinking. The difference between your case and the actual case is that in the actual case Fourputt describes, you know with certainty that each ball is either the original or the provisional and either way, the player could play the ball. That's not true in your case, because the ball is either yours or your opponent's. If it's your opponent's, then you can't play it.

[KC Mike]

I gave my answer in the first sentence. I simply said it reminded me of this, which is what I based it on, that he can't identify either shot. I wasn't making a case, actual or otherwise. At least not on purpose.

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by KC Mike

I gave my answer in the first sentence. I simply said it reminded me of this, which is what I based it on, that he can't identify either shot. I wasn't making a case, actual or otherwise. At least not on purpose.

Fair enough. Your answer is wrong (as was mine). As Fourputt said it's in the decisions for rule 27.

[KC Mike]

Yeah, I finally found the situation in 27/11.

[KC Mike]

Now I am going to throw in the dreaded "What If" here, since I know how much people love a what if situation!

What if they were playing a 36 holes in one day event. The above happened in the second round, however, in the first round, the same player lost a ball in exactly the same area in question (his balls are marked with his name on them). Then in round two, the previous situation arises, but now there are three balls there. His original tee shot, the provisional AND the lost ball from the first round. Now what do you do? (I guess it really doesn't matter if it's a 36 hole event, you could probably just say that a third, identical ball was also found with the other two balls)

[Fileygolfer]

Never mind a "What if", how about a "WHAT IF".

I've now read Decision 27\11 and KC Mike has a very valid point. Never mind a 36 hole Event, what about any Event where Free Golf Balls are dished out on the 1st Tee. One or even both Balls could belong to another Player\s.

A truly bizarre situation, Thanks for pointing it out Fourputt.

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by KC Mike

Now I am going to throw in the dreaded "What If" here, since I know how much people love a what if situation!

What if they were playing a 36 holes in one day event. The above happened in the second round, however, in the first round, the same player lost a ball in exactly the same area in question (his balls are marked with his name on them). Then in round two, the previous situation arises, but now there are three balls there. His original tee shot, the provisional AND the lost ball from the first round. Now what do you do? (I guess it really doesn't matter if it's a 36 hole event, you could probably just say that a third, identical ball was also found with the other two balls)

Then both balls would be lost

[JungleJ]

So to clarify - the player must select one ball as his provisional ball and that becomes the ball in play? So he is lying three?

However, as I understand Rule 27 - a provisional ball must be abandoned once it is known that the original ball is in a water hazard. I don't see how this Decision fits in with the Rule.

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by JungleJ

So to clarify - the player must select one ball as his provisional ball and that becomes the ball in play? So he is lying three?

However, as I understand Rule 27 - a provisional ball must be abandoned once it is known that the original ball is in a water hazard. I don't see how this Decision fits in with the Rule.

It's not known that the original ball is in a water hazard.

[Bulls9999]

OK, I guess I'll add the answer then?

27/11 Provisional Ball Not Distinguishable from Original Ball
A player entitled to play a provisional ball from the tee plays it into the same area as his original ball. The balls have identical markings and the player cannot distinguish between them. Following are various situations and the solutions, which are based on equity (Rule 1-4), when the above circumstances exist and one or both of the balls are found within a search of five minutes:
Situation 1: One ball is found in a water hazard and the other ball is not found.
Solution 1: The ball that was found must be presumed to be the provisional ball.

Situation 2:Both balls are found in a water hazard.
Solution 2: As the player's original ball is lost in the water hazard due to his inability to identify it (see analogous Decision 27/10), the player must proceed under Rule 26-1 with respect to the original ball (estimating the spot where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard, if necessary — see Decision 26-1/17); his next stroke would be his third.

Situation 3: One ball is found in bounds and the other ball is lost or is found out of bounds.
Solution 3: The ball in bounds must be presumed to be the provisional ball.

<< Why is the 'assumption, or guess' for the worst case scenario? Since it is not factual, it is a guess'.>> Same dilemma for Situation #1??

==> IF both balls were side-by-side inbounds, there would be no 'guessing or assumption' of which is which, you would not be able to identify which is which and you would therefore fall under the "can not find ball within 5 min" category (according to my reading of the rules)....stroke and distance penalty (according to 27-1), so why wouldn't this same result apply regardless if one ball was in bounds or out or in a hazard?....if you can't identify which is which when they are side by side, you can't do it when they are not...same dilemma regardless of ball position?

Situation 4: Both balls are found in bounds, whether in a playable or an unplayable lie, and (1) one ball is in a water hazard and the other is not or (2) both balls lie through the green or in a bunker.
Solution 4: One could argue that both balls are lost. However, it would be inequitable to require the player to return to the tee, playing 5, when the player has found both balls but does not know which is the original and which the provisional. Accordingly, the player must select one of the balls, treat it as his provisional ball and abandon the other.
(Revised)

[JungleJ]

The way I look at it is this:

If it is the original ball in the hazard, the provisional must be abandoned.
If it is the provisional ball in the hazard, the original must be played as it lies.

The Decision resolves the situation by allowing the play of a provisional ball that in 50% of cases could not be used. However, why couldn't the player merely insist that one or the other was the original ball? Who is going to gainsay?

[JungleJ]

BTW Ty - I get Situation 2 completely.

It is KNOWN that the original ball is in a water hazard. Therefore the provisional ball is invalid under the Rules (as it would be if it was in the fairway but the original was found in the hazard) and so the player proceeds under Rule 26-1.

[Bulls9999]

I don't see the application of 'equity' in the various (similar) situations (i.e., both original ball and provisional balls are not differentially identiable, regardless of where they end up)?

Rule 1-4
What is "Equity?"
Q. What does the term "Equity" mean as used in the Rules of Golf?
A. Equity means to treat like situations alike. Some situations are not covered by the Rules of Golf, thus the decision must be made according to what is fair under the Rules of Golf. Equity is not a substitute for a Rule.(Rule 1-4)

[JungleJ]

Originally Posted by Bulls9999

I don't see the application of 'equity' in the various (similar) situations (i.e., both original ball and provisional balls are not differentially identiable, regardless of where they end up)?

Rule 1-4
What is "Equity?"
Q. What does the term "Equity" mean as used in the Rules of Golf?
A. Equity means to treat like situations alike. Some situations are not covered by the Rules of Golf, thus the decision must be made according to what is fair under the Rules of Golf. Equity is not a substitute for a Rule.(Rule 1-4)

Equity here means, first of all, how would a similar situation under a different Rule be handled? It just means to try to use the Rules and principles behind them to arrive at a Decision. "Fair" here is only relative to the Rules of Golf, not universal principles of fairness.

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by JungleJ

BTW Ty - I get Situation 2 completely.

It is KNOWN that the original ball is in a water hazard. Therefore the provisional ball is invalid under the Rules (as it would be if it was in the fairway but the original was found in the hazard) and so the player proceeds under Rule 26-1.

I understand why it is that way, it just strikes me as odd that you're better off if the other ball is in the hazard than if it isn't. It feels like in Fourputt's situation, in equity, rather than being allowed to pick a ball to be the provisional, you should be able to play the ball like it's in the water hazard. Either the provisional is in the water and the original is in play on dry land, or the provisional is on dry land and the original is in the water, so whichever way round it is you would either play under no penalty or as if you're in the water hazard. It would seem more equitable to that situation 2 to say that you can continue as if you're in the water hazard.

I suppose that that would then make it unreasonable to say if both balls are out of the water that you have to pick one as provisional. Which is presumably why they went the way they did.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by JungleJ

The way I look at it is this:

If it is the original ball in the hazard, the provisional must be abandoned.
If it is the provisional ball in the hazard, the original must be played as it lies.

The Decision resolves the situation by allowing the play of a provisional ball that in 50% of cases could not be used. However, why couldn't the player merely insist that one or the other was the original ball? Who is going to gainsay?

Who is going to gainsay? The Rules of Golf. And hopefully the player's own integrity.

In such a situation you MUST be able to tell which ball is which because the procedures and score are different. Decision 27/11 revolves around being able to identify your ball. If it isn't possible to know which was the original and which was the provisional, then this decision is your guideline for determining the fairest procedure. It may seem that having to take the highest penalty is harsh, but after all, it's the player's responsibility to play the correct ball, and if he is unable to do that with certainty through his own negligence, then he will just have to pay the price.

I always mark each ball in a similar fashion, but when playing a provisional I will either play a ball with a different number from the original, or in some cases I will even whip out my Sharpie and put a big "P" on the ball which is to be my provisional.

It is just possible that someday I might hit a ball into a place where I lost a ball previously on the course. I've been playing my home course for some 30 years, and I've certainly lost plenty of balls in the native rough. It has never happened so far, and in the extremely rare event that such a freak occurrence might happen, I'll just take my penalty and play on.

[Fileygolfer]

Although I can see the sense in the decision, it is not as clear cut as it should be.

Origional in WH and Prov in rough = Play 4th with Prov as against PD with origional so playing 3.

Prov in WH and Origional in rough = Play 2nd with Origional.

Because it can not be certain which Ball is which, the Decision allows you to play your 4th shot from the rough instead of having to return to the Tee.

But if a 3rd or even 4th Ball is involved, the Decision does not really cover that. If a Player can't definately ID his Ball from two, what chance would he have with 3 or 4?

[Bulls9999]

OK, then is the following (in red) correct?, as I posted it was "as I read/interpreted the rules":

1. Origional in WH and Prov in rough = Play 4th with Prov as against PD with origional so playing 3.
2. Prov in WH and Origional in rough = Play 2nd with Origional.
3. Orig. and Prov. in the rough = can't identify which is which = play 5th from the tee?

27-1. Stroke and Distance; Ball Out of Bounds; Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes

a. Proceeding Under Stroke and Distance
At any time, a player may, under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5), i.e., proceed under penalty of stroke and distance.
Except as otherwise provided in the Rules, if a player makes a stroke at a ball from the spot at which the original ball was last played, he is deemed to have proceeded under penalty of stroke and distance.
b. Ball Out of Bounds
If a ball is out of bounds, the player must play a ball, under penalty of one stroke, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5).
c. Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes
If a ball is lost as a result of not being found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's Side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it, the player must play a ball, under penalty of one stroke, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5).

OK, never mind...I just found this =>

27/11 Provisional Ball Not Distinguishable from Original Ball
A player entitled to play a provisional ball from the tee plays it into the same area as his original ball. The balls have identical markings and the player cannot distinguish between them. Following are various situations and the solutions, which are based on equity (Rule 1-4), when the above circumstances exist and one or both of the balls are found within a search of five minutes:

Solution 4: One could argue that both balls are lost. However, it would be inequitable to require the player to return to the tee, playing 5, when the player has found both balls but does not know which is the original and which the provisional. Accordingly, the player must select one of the balls, treat it as his provisional ball and abandon the other.

Originally Posted by Fileygolfer

Although I can see the sense in the decision, it is not as clear cut as it should be.

Origional in WH and Prov in rough = Play 4th with Prov as against PD with origional so playing 3.

Prov in WH and Origional in rough = Play 2nd with Origional.

Because it can not be certain which Ball is which, the Decision allows you to play your 4th shot from the rough instead of having to return to the Tee.

But if a 3rd or even 4th Ball is involved, the Decision does not really cover that. If a Player can't definately ID his Ball from two, what chance would he have with 3 or 4?

[JungleJ]

Originally Posted by Bulls9999

OK, then is the following (in red) correct?, as I posted it was "as I read/interpreted the rules":

1. Origional in WH and Prov in rough = Play 4th with Prov as against PD with origional so playing 3.
2. Prov in WH and Origional in rough = Play 2nd with Origional.
3. Orig. and Prov. in the rough = can't identify which is which = play 5th from the tee?

27-1. Stroke and Distance; Ball Out of Bounds; Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes

a. Proceeding Under Stroke and Distance
At any time, a player may, under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5), i.e., proceed under penalty of stroke and distance.
Except as otherwise provided in the Rules, if a player makes a stroke at a ball from the spot at which the original ball was last played, he is deemed to have proceeded under penalty of stroke and distance.
b. Ball Out of Bounds
If a ball is out of bounds, the player must play a ball, under penalty of one stroke, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5).
c. Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes
If a ball is lost as a result of not being found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's Side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it, the player must play a ball, under penalty of one stroke, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5).

OK, never mind...I just found this =>

27/11 Provisional Ball Not Distinguishable from Original Ball
A player entitled to play a provisional ball from the tee plays it into the same area as his original ball. The balls have identical markings and the player cannot distinguish between them. Following are various situations and the solutions, which are based on equity (Rule 1-4), when the above circumstances exist and one or both of the balls are found within a search of five minutes:

Solution 4: One could argue that both balls are lost. However, it would be inequitable to require the player to return to the tee, playing 5, when the player has found both balls but does not know which is the original and which the provisional. Accordingly, the player must select one of the balls, treat it as his provisional ball and abandon the other.

So he chooses a ball and is now lying 3 playing 4.

[JungleJ]

Originally Posted by Fileygolfer

Although I can see the sense in the decision, it is not as clear cut as it should be.

Origional in WH and Prov in rough = Play 4th with Prov as against PD with origional so playing 3.

Prov in WH and Origional in rough = Play 2nd with Origional.

Because it can not be certain which Ball is which, the Decision allows you to play your 4th shot from the rough instead of having to return to the Tee.

But if a 3rd or even 4th Ball is involved, the Decision does not really cover that. If a Player can't definately ID his Ball from two, what chance would he have with 3 or 4?

He'd be an idiot, but the principle would be the same - he would have to select his most recent provisional and abandon the rest.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Fileygolfer

Although I can see the sense in the decision, it is not as clear cut as it should be.

Origional in WH and Prov in rough = Play 4th with Prov as against PD with origional so playing 3.

Prov in WH and Origional in rough = Play 2nd with Origional.

Because it can not be certain which Ball is which, the Decision allows you to play your 4th shot from the rough instead of having to return to the Tee.

But if a 3rd or even 4th Ball is involved, the Decision does not really cover that. If a Player can't definately ID his Ball from two, what chance would he have with 3 or 4?

By extension of the decision, if the player had only played 2 balls from the tee (assumed for discussion purposes), then in equity, he chooses one of the 3 or 4 identical balls found and plays his 4th stroke with that ball. The assumption is that he is continuing play with the ball which was played as a provisional.

If he had played 3 balls from the tee, then he is playing his 6th stroke with what is deemed to be the 3rd ball played from the tee. The decision clearly assumes that the last provisional ball is the ball in play. Since in reality such a case would be rare to non-existent, it is unlikely that a decision would make specific reference to it.

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

By extension of the decision, if the player had only played 2 balls from the tee (assumed for discussion purposes), then in equity, he chooses one of the 3 or 4 identical balls found and plays his 4th stroke with that ball. The assumption is that he is continuing play with the ball which was played as a provisional.

If he had played 3 balls from the tee, then he is playing his 6th stroke with what is deemed to be the 3rd ball played from the tee. The decision clearly assumes that the last provisional ball is the ball in play. Since in reality such a case would be rare to non-existent, it is unlikely that a decision would make specific reference to it.

For the record, I have on more than a few occasions played a second and even third provisional. Granted if you hit them all in the same place, you have bigger issues to be worrying about.

[JungleJ]

I've played a second provisional a few times - Fourputt's right that it is unlikely that one would hit three or more indistinguishable balls to the exact same location.

[Fileygolfer]

Sorry if I confused the situation.
What I was meaning was that the further Ball came from another player. Here in the UK we have sponsors Days where you are given some Balls on the first Tee. If everyone played with the Balls they were given then the chance of the origional senario can be added to. Not only does our Player hit two Balls of the same Make, Model and number, but he also hits them into an area were a previous Player had also hit a Ball of the same Make, Model and number but that Player couldn't find his.
The Decision is sound but doesn't cover all possibles.
For example:-
Our Player hits a Ball towards OOB and thinking that it could be Out plays a Prov (same Make etc as origional senario). Upon getting to the area he finds 3 Balls of the same Make, Model and number of which 2 are OOB. Are these Balls his or is the one in Bounds his?

[Bulls9999]

Yea, I have seen people play an original and 2 provisionals and none of the 3 were any good, lol

Originally Posted by Fourputt

By extension of the decision, if the player had only played 2 balls from the tee (assumed for discussion purposes), then in equity, he chooses one of the 3 or 4 identical balls found and plays his 4th stroke with that ball. The assumption is that he is continuing play with the ball which was played as a provisional.

If he had played 3 balls from the tee, then he is playing his 6th stroke with what is deemed to be the 3rd ball played from the tee. The decision clearly assumes that the last provisional ball is the ball in play. Since in reality such a case would be rare to non-existent, it is unlikely that a decision would make specific reference to it.

[Bulls9999]

That's when you break out the Tylenol.

Originally Posted by Fileygolfer

Sorry if I confused the situation.
What I was meaning was that the further Ball came from another player. Here in the UK we have sponsors Days where you are given some Balls on the first Tee. If everyone played with the Balls they were given then the chance of the origional senario can be added to. Not only does our Player hit two Balls of the same Make, Model and number, but he also hits them into an area were a previous Player had also hit a Ball of the same Make, Model and number but that Player couldn't find his.
The Decision is sound but doesn't cover all possibles.
For example:-
Our Player hits a Ball towards OOB and thinking that it could be Out plays a Prov (same Make etc as origional senario). Upon getting to the area he finds 3 Balls of the same Make, Model and number of which 2 are OOB. Are these Balls his or is the one in Bounds his?

[Fileygolfer]

Sorry guys,
I have gone back through this Tread and read the posts again.
The Decision says that the Player found HIS Balls but didn't know which was which. This means he must have ID'd them to be both his.
What I am going on about is if the Player can't ID his Balls with certainty because there is more than his two Balls involved.

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by Fileygolfer

Sorry if I confused the situation.
What I was meaning was that the further Ball came from another player. Here in the UK we have sponsors Days where you are given some Balls on the first Tee. If everyone played with the Balls they were given then the chance of the origional senario can be added to. Not only does our Player hit two Balls of the same Make, Model and number, but he also hits them into an area were a previous Player had also hit a Ball of the same Make, Model and number but that Player couldn't find his.
The Decision is sound but doesn't cover all possibles.
For example:-
Our Player hits a Ball towards OOB and thinking that it could be Out plays a Prov (same Make etc as origional senario). Upon getting to the area he finds 3 Balls of the same Make, Model and number of which 2 are OOB. Are these Balls his or is the one in Bounds his?

If you can't distinguish between your balls and someone else's (good job I'm not a 14 year old or I would never stop giggling) then they would both have to be considered lost. Even if all three were in bounds. Back to the tee.

[Diane]

Originally Posted by Ty_Webb

good job I'm not a 14 year old or I would never stop giggling

Then you are very unusual Ty. I have found that most men retain the sense of humor they developed at 14 and keep it for life.

4-Putt - Sorry about the slight threadjack.

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by Diane

Then you are very unusual Ty. I have found that most men retain the sense of humor they developed at 14 and keep it for life.

4-Putt - Sorry about the slight threadjack.

Ah, no you misunderstand. I giggle, significantly, but my memory's not what it was, so I forget why I'm giggling and that's why I stop.

NB The older I get, the more convinced I get that boys stop growing up at about the age of 7.