Mickelson called out by Scott McCarren for 'cheating'?

[Bulls9999]

Interesting. I suppose you all know the story on the Ping iGrooves...something about them actually being 'square grooves' but way back when Ping was going to sue USGA, they reprieved and said, ok, only those made after 1992 were not allowed (so those before 1992 ARE ALLOWED).

McCarron accuses Mickelson of ‘cheating’ - PGA Tour Coverage | Golf Channel

Mickelson seems to be making a statement in respect to Callaway's attempt to get their new V-groove wedges accepted, but they weren't (haven't heard the reason why though). So Phil said, ok, then I'm going to use the old allowable iPing wedges (or whatever they're called).

When McClarren was told that "but they're allowed by the USGA", he said, but still, you'd think the top guy in the field would live up to the 'spirit of golf'.

I like what Brandel Chamblee said in Phil's defense...besides also that 'they're allowed by USGA" Brandel said "McCarren of all people should talk about doing something that is not in the spirit of the game....he uses a belly putter which if anything USGA has digressed over what it may considers a bad decision, it was the allowance of a belly putter that gives a fulchrum effect"....so Brandel was slapping McCarron 'upside his head' for talking about someone else not obliging the 'spirit of the game'.

It's either allowable or not, all other shades of interpretation of 'spirit', let them rule on these things...nothing is stopping USGA from making a decision against the Ping grooves ...except for fear of lawsuit. Since when has a sports body been fearful of what an equipment manufacturer thinks?....never heard of it in any other sport. Anyone have any examples like that elsewhere?

[Wazmankg]

If McCarron used the word 'cheating', he's an idiot. Clubs are either illegal or they're not. Ping-Eye 2's are not. End of story. I heard talk of a lot of guys going to the old Ping-Eye 2 wedges earlier this year. Why single Phil out ?

[JPsuff]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

If McCarron used the word 'cheating', he's an idiot. Clubs are either illegal or they're not. Ping-Eye 2's are not. End of story. I heard talk of a lot of guys going to the old Ping-Eye 2 wedges earlier this year. Why single Phil out ?

Yeah but let's read between the lines here.

The fact that "a lot of guys" went to Ping Eye 2 wedges tells me that though they may be conforming (or at least not proveably illegal), there must be something about the grooves on those wedges that are more "spinny" than the currently allowed grooves.

To me, if there's a perception that those wedges will offer an advantage over the grooves which are now in play, then that is not "in the spirit of the game" or in the spirit of the rule change and suggests that those who choose to use them are gaining an unfair advantage in doing so.

I'm sorry, but I don't think that McCarron is too far off on this one.

What it sounds like is that guys like Phil who have become addicted to the spin potential of modern wedges that they simply cannot bring themselves to use the reinstated "V" grooved wedges and are doing whatever they can, in any way they can, to maintain their "spin superiority". Seems more juvenile to me than anything else. Sort of like some kid stamping his feet and crying: "No, I want my spin and you're not going to take it away!"

Going after the Ping Eye 2's because they were "pre-1992" and thus not involved in the lawsuit is, at best, dicey and at worst seems rather childish - even belligerent. Why can't Mickelson and the other "guys" just accept the fact that the rules have changed and deal with it?



-JP

[Bulls9999]

USGA must bear the brunt on their mistake of not ruling on this. This is issue has been on the books since 1992, USGA did not press the issue for fear of a Ping lawsuit back then?, come on, I don't see how a sports governing body can be held hostage by a manufacturer but they let themselves be and allowed those clubs to be 'in use'. How can you possibly fault players in 2010 when this issue has been resolved by USGA back in 1992 and they could have gone back and made it a non-issue any time between then and now by declaring that those clubs don't fit within the current rules. If you are going to say there's shades of grey that players must also interprete, then I'll have to agree with Brandel that event hough belly putters are allowed, they give a definite advantage to those that use them in helping to stabilize the putter and that it 'isn't in the spirit of the game to use them'.

This is what I don't understand... if USGA can make a rules change now about square grooves changing to V-grooves, causing all manufacturers to conform (even Ping), then why can they not have eliminated the Ping-Eye groove of 1992 that was the controversial issue? ....Phil asked them, is that club 'allowed for play' and they said yes, end of story. They could just have easily said "NO", n'est pa?

Originally Posted by JPsuff

Yeah but let's read between the lines here.

The fact that "a lot of guys" went to Ping Eye 2 wedges tells me that though they may be conforming (or at least not proveably illegal), there must be something about the grooves on those wedges that are more "spinny" than the currently allowed grooves.

To me, if there's a perception that those wedges will offer an advantage over the grooves which are now in play, then that is not "in the spirit of the game" or in the spirit of the rule change and suggests that those who choose to use them are gaining an unfair advantage in doing so.

I'm sorry, but I don't think that McCarron is too far off on this one.

What it sounds like is that guys like Phil who have become addicted to the spin potential of modern wedges that they simply cannot bring themselves to use the reinstated "V" grooved wedges and are doing whatever they can, in any way they can, to maintain their "spin superiority". Seems more juvenile to me than anything else. Sort of like some kid stamping his feet and crying: "No, I want my spin and you're not going to take it away!"

Going after the Ping Eye 2's because they were "pre-1992" and thus not involved in the lawsuit is, at best, dicey and at worst seems rather childish - even belligerent. Why can't Mickelson and the other "guys" just accept the fact that the rules have changed and deal with it?



-JP

[Ty_Webb]

Originally Posted by Bulls9999

USGA must bear the brunt on their mistake of not ruling on this. This is issue has been on the books since 1992, USGA did not press the issue for fear of a Ping lawsuit back then?, come on, I don't see how a sports governing body can be held hostage by a manufacturer but they let themselves be and allowed those clubs to be 'in use'. How can you possibly fault players in 2010 when this issue has been resolved by USGA back in 1992 and they could have gone back and made it a non-issue any time between then and now by declaring that those clubs don't fit within the current rules. If you are going to say there's shades of grey that players must also interprete, then I'll have to agree with Brandel that event hough belly putters are allowed, they give a definite advantage to those that use them in helping to stabilize the putter and that it 'isn't in the spirit of the game to use them'.

This is what I don't understand... if USGA can make a rules change now about square grooves changing to V-grooves, causing all manufacturers to conform (even Ping), then why can they not have eliminated the Ping-Eye groove of 1992 that was the controversial issue? ....Phil asked them, is that club 'allowed for play' and they said yes, end of story. They could just have easily said "NO", n'est pa?

IMO there's a big difference between using a belly putter and using these ping wedges. There is nothing in the rules that says that a belly putter is illegal. Some people may not like them, but nothing says that doing such a thing is against the rules, so so be it.

On the other hand, the rules say that those grooves are illegal, but because of some law suit determined about 20 years ago, those particular wedges are exempt from the rule. That's outwith the spirit of the game and Mickelson and the others should b ashamed of themselves for so obviously sidestepping the rules. I'm not going to accuse them of cheating because the clubs they're using are "legal". At least according to the letter of the law. I don't like it one little bit though.

[Bigvivec]

Originally Posted by JPsuff

Yeah but let's read between the lines here.

The fact that "a lot of guys" went to Ping Eye 2 wedges tells me that though they may be conforming (or at least not proveably illegal), there must be something about the grooves on those wedges that are more "spinny" than the currently allowed grooves.

To me, if there's a perception that those wedges will offer an advantage over the grooves which are now in play, then that is not "in the spirit of the game" or in the spirit of the rule change and suggests that those who choose to use them are gaining an unfair advantage in doing so.

I'm sorry, but I don't think that McCarron is too far off on this one.

What it sounds like is that guys like Phil who have become addicted to the spin potential of modern wedges that they simply cannot bring themselves to use the reinstated "V" grooved wedges and are doing whatever they can, in any way they can, to maintain their "spin superiority". Seems more juvenile to me than anything else. Sort of like some kid stamping his feet and crying: "No, I want my spin and you're not going to take it away!"

Going after the Ping Eye 2's because they were "pre-1992" and thus not involved in the lawsuit is, at best, dicey and at worst seems rather childish - even belligerent. Why can't Mickelson and the other "guys" just accept the fact that the rules have changed and deal with it?



-JP

They play for money...there's nothing chidlish about it...just like F1 guys looking to tweak their cars to the limits of what is legal, until the ping eye 2 are put on the non conforming list I actually pat those guys on the back for figuring a way to realize marginally better performance within the rules...



...and despite the insinuation, Phil has a PHAT short game and can play it with or without spin...you've gotta be joking to hint otherwise...

[Wazmankg]

"I understand guys are upset about this rule - I'm upset about this rule," Mickelson said when asked about McCarron's comments. "I think we need to take it out on the governing bodies, the ones who are making these rules and carrying out these rules. ... I don't agree with the way (McCarron) carried on about it, but that's his choice."

Mickelson tried to divert attention from a growing chorus of criticism. Several players have publicly complained about those using Ping Eye 2 wedges, though McCarron's reference to "cheating" - an especially dirty word in golf - resonated the loudest.

"It's not my job or the job of any players to try to interpret the spirit of the rule or the intent," Mickelson said. "I understand approved or not approved."


What McCarron's said was not only insulting but it was ignorant, because it's factually incorrect.

[JPsuff]

Originally Posted by Bigvivec

...and despite the insinuation, Phil has a PHAT short game and can play it with or without spin...you've gotta be joking to hint otherwise...

And that's exactly my point.

I played "V" grooves right up until 2002 and I never had a problem with getting a ball to stop on a green. So if I could do that, I'm sure the best players in the world would have ZERO problems with "V" grooves. So why do guys like Phil have to act like lawyers citing loopholes in the rules?

Just play the "V" grooves and stop acting like a shyster.


-JP

[straightshooter]

It is the job of the USGA to set the rules of competition.

It is the job of the players to compete as hard as they can, which includes bringing the most effective tools allowed. Any player that doesn't do so violates the spirit of competition at the tournaments he plays in.

Any PGA Tour win this year should come with an asterisk (*) as follows:

* In 2010 a significant fraction of tour players chose to play politics instead of doing their best to win golf tournaments. Due to the diminished competition, 2010 tournament wins carry less value than those of other years.

[JPsuff]

Originally Posted by straightshooter

It is the job of the USGA to set the rules of competition.

It is the job of the players to compete as hard as they can, which includes bringing the most effective tools allowed. Any player that doesn't do so violates the spirit of competition at the tournaments he plays in.

Any PGA Tour win this year should come with an asterisk (*) as follows:

* In 2010 a significant fraction of tour players chose to play politics instead of doing their best to win golf tournaments. Due to the diminished competition, 2010 tournament wins carry less value than those of other years.

Well, tongue in cheek or not, that's exactly where it's headed.

2010 will go down as the year that the PGA's facade of integrity came crashing down and the public got to see what many have suspected all along; that "Honor, Integrity and Tradition" take a back seat to politics, gamesmanship and shameless gainsaying.

Say what you will about Tiger, but at least HIS transgressions were of a personal nature and didn't involve playing fast and loose with the rules of golf. What's particularly laughable is that Phil and his Phollowers have all but anointed him as "Mr. Wholesome" and here is our little "John Boy" acting like a Philadelphia lawyer because he can't use his saw-toothed wedges anymore.


-JP

[GolfSavage]

I'm surprised that the players' sponsors aren't making any noise about this. How does this look for Callaway that their big guy, whose biggest claim to fame is an awesome short game, can't count on their wedges, no matter what the rules are? And where have all these pre-'92 Ping wedges been hiding? Are players going on Craigslist and buying up all the pre-'92 wedges they can find? Did Ping have a warehouse in Phoenix full of old wedges kept for just such a situation? Will Phil have a new bag made that says "Callawing" or "Pingaway"?

[Leaguegolf]

Originally Posted by JPsuff

Say what you will about Tiger, but at least HIS transgressions were of a personal nature and didn't involve playing fast and loose with the rules of golf.

Nah, there was nothing "fast and loose" about Tiger's boulder incident afew years back.

I don't understand what the fuss is about. There is no grey area here. Either the clubs are legal or they're not. If McCarron has an issue with the equipment allowed by the USGA then he should take it up with the USGA, not the players that are using the legal equipment.

[straightshooter]

I am on Phil's side in this, but good for him and all the other players that they spoke on this. I hope this will bring the issue to a head, and that the various parties can solve this problem soon, and remove this Eyesore from the game. There aren't too many parties involved, and I don't think anyone likes this situation, so they should be able to get it done, ...... just like in Washington DC!

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by JPsuff

Say what you will about Tiger, but at least HIS transgressions were of a personal nature and didn't involve playing fast and loose with the rules of golf. What's particularly laughable is that Phil and his Phollowers have all but anointed him as "Mr. Wholesome" and here is our little "John Boy" acting like a Philadelphia lawyer because he can't use his saw-toothed wedges anymore. -JP

I'll take 2 ton loose impediments for $1000 Alex. "Mr Wholesome"...nice strawman, JP. Your disdain for Phil and cynicism towards certain ROG are both well documented here. It's up to the PGA Tour to write their rules and the players to abide by them.

[JPsuff]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

I'll take 2 ton loose impediments for $1000 Alex. "Mr Wholesome"...nice strawman, JP. Your disdain for Phil and cynicism towards certain ROG are both well documented here. It's up to the PGA Tour to write their rules and the players to abide by them.

Hey, I was the first one to criticize Tiger about the rock nonsense, so don't even go there. Yes, he stretched it to the max, but it was one incident. The Ping Eye 2 deal stretches across the entire game.

This is like your classic neighborhood dispute. Some guy blasts his stereo out on his patio every day, but he just barely manages to keep the noise down low enough so that he's not violating any noise ordinances. He can smirk at his neighbors and tell them that he's not breaking any laws, but he's not making any friends either.

Besides, one would think that since Phil is such a short game wizard that it would be fun to see what he could do with "V" grooves. If he's as good as he thinks he is, then he shouldn't have too much trouble with his short game, right?

This is like watching an addict going through withdrawal. Phil and the rest of "the guys" have been so addicted to "box groove crack" that they find it difficult to give it up. So in a sense, Phil's insistence on using the Ping's is sort of like Mathadone maintenance, I guess.

Maybe there's a "Bomb & Gouge" Anonymous group meeting somewhere?


-JP

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by straightshooter

It is the job of the USGA to set the rules of competition.

It is the job of the players to compete as hard as they can, which includes bringing the most effective tools allowed. Any player that doesn't do so violates the spirit of competition at the tournaments he plays in.

Any PGA Tour win this year should come with an asterisk (*) as follows:

* In 2010 a significant fraction of tour players chose to play politics instead of doing their best to win golf tournaments. Due to the diminished competition, 2010 tournament wins carry less value than those of other years.

Actually it's the job of the USGA to maintain the Rules of Golf.

It's the job of the PGA Tour to set the conditions of competition for the tour. As far as I know the Tour is not mentioned in the Ping lawsuit, so they don't have to abide by it for competition. If they had the guts, they'd have simply set it as a condition that the players had to use 2010 grooves in competition. That would have nipped this whole controversy in the bud. Now they have a big battle between adherents to the letter of the rule and those who abide by the spirit of the rule. It isn't going to help the tour for the board to just bury their collective heads in the sand over this and ignore the fact that they have a problem. Time for a high level decision (i.e. Tim Finchem) to end it and get back to playing golf.


If he has the cajones....

[straightshooter]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Actually it's the job of the USGA to maintain the Rules of Golf.

It's the job of the PGA Tour to set the conditions of competition for the tour. As far as I know the Tour is not mentioned in the Ping lawsuit, so they don't have to abide by it for competition. If they had the guts, they'd have simply set it as a condition that the players had to use 2010 grooves in competition. That would have nipped this whole controversy in the bud. Now they have a big battle between adherents to the letter of the rule and those who abide by the spirit of the rule. It isn't going to help the tour for the board to just bury their collective heads in the sand over this and ignore the fact that they have a problem. Time for a high level decision (i.e. Tim Finchem) to end it and get back to playing golf.


If he has the cajones....

Thanks for clearing that up! I wasn't sure how it all worked, and I chose 'USGA' over 'PGA Tour' because the lawsuit was between the former and Ping.

[mr3856a]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

If McCarron used the word 'cheating', he's an idiot. Clubs are either illegal or they're not.

Not true. Phil himself said yesterday that some clubs are conforming but not approved for play, and some clubs are not conforming but are approved for play, like the Eye 2 (actually only the Eye 2).

In spirit, I think McCarron's right. Phil is skirting the spirit of the rule, and he knows it. Now, so are some other guys, Hunter Mahan included, but I would expect nothing less of Hunter Mahan. He's a self-centered, arrogant brat. Now there's also Lumpy, who has always played the Eye 2's, which is somewhat of a different story. But I think Phil and guys like him who haven't touched an Eye 2 in decades to go yank one out of the closet because it is approved for play because of a lawsuit is frankly. And I would expect a player of Phil's stature to set an example for the good of the game and the Tour, not to be one of the guys on the fringe of the rules.

It's not technically cheating, but you would think Phil would not want his name associated with the notion that he's not really cheating. The fact is, those grooves are against the rules, but he and other players have found a way around it. I'm disappointed that Phil isn't setting the opposite example. Shame on him.

[mr3856a]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

"I understand guys are upset about this rule - I'm upset about this rule," Mickelson said when asked about McCarron's comments. "I think we need to take it out on the governing bodies, the ones who are making these rules and carrying out these rules. ... I don't agree with the way (McCarron) carried on about it, but that's his choice."

Mickelson tried to divert attention from a growing chorus of criticism. Several players have publicly complained about those using Ping Eye 2 wedges, though McCarron's reference to "cheating" - an especially dirty word in golf - resonated the loudest.

"It's not my job or the job of any players to try to interpret the spirit of the rule or the intent," Mickelson said. "I understand approved or not approved."


What McCarron's said was not only insulting but it was ignorant, because it's factually incorrect.

It's not his job to interpret the spirit of the rule? What a complete cop-out. I have to say I've lost some respect for him. Don't me, Phil, you know the spirit of the rule, and you know full well that you're breaking it.

[mr3856a]

Originally Posted by Leaguegolf

Nah, there was nothing "fast and loose" about Tiger's boulder incident afew years back.

I don't understand what the fuss is about. There is no grey area here. Either the clubs are legal or they're not.

Not true. There's a difference between "conforming" and "approved for play". Even Phil said that.

[mr3856a]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

I'll take 2 ton loose impediments for $1000 Alex. .

That's a ridiculous comparison.

[Wazmankg]

There's no such thing as "the spirit of the rule". One is either in violation or they're not.

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by mr3856a

Not true. There's a difference between "conforming" and "approved for play". Even Phil said that.

If his clubs are approved for play he's conforming with the rules. How's that ? Not conforming with the rules would be cheating. McCarron and those who support his terminology are at odds with the English language.

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by mr3856a

That's a ridiculous comparison.

How so ? What's ridiculous is this whole "spirit of the rules" nonsense. You're either in violation or you're not.

[Fileygolfer]

It will be interesting to see what the Europeans do.
The footnote to the USGA Decision on Rule 4-1 that allows the pre 1990 clubs and the Ping Eye 2 in particular appears to be missing off the R&A version.

There will be plenty of these wedges about, I remember when they were launched. They ripped the Balata covering off the balls of the day, so one shot and the ball was dead.

Westwood is a Ping man, has he got one in his bag? He has already dumped his shafts from last week.

[TTUfirebird2008]

Don't you love loopholes?

Originally Posted by mr3856a

And I would expect a player of Phil's stature to set an example for the good of the game and the Tour, not to be one of the guys on the fringe of the rules.

I agree. Phil is talented enough that he shouldn't need to take advantage of a loophole in the rules.

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by Fileygolfer

It will be interesting to see what the Europeans do.
The footnote to the USGA Decision on Rule 4-1 that allows the pre 1990 clubs and the Ping Eye 2 in particular appears to be missing off the R&A version.

There will be plenty of these wedges about, I remember when they were launched. They ripped the Balata covering off the balls of the day, so one shot and the ball was dead.

Westwood is a Ping man, has he got one in his bag? He has already dumped his shafts from last week.

I read that the R&A was not a party to the deal between the USGA & Ping that created the loophole back in the early 90s and the clubs won't be allowed in R&A sanctioned events. I'll try to find a link.

[Bigvivec]

Originally Posted by JPsuff

And that's exactly my point.

I played "V" grooves right up until 2002 and I never had a problem with getting a ball to stop on a green. So if I could do that, I'm sure the best players in the world would have ZERO problems with "V" grooves. So why do guys like Phil have to act like lawyers citing loopholes in the rules?

Just play the "V" grooves and stop acting like a shyster.


-JP

BUT...


...square grooves stop the ball faster...that really can't be argued...



...and if the club is legal then if I were a player looking to maximize my spin rate with a wedge then I'd be foolish not to at least try it out...


...Sunday foursomes can argue about the spirit of the game until they are blue in the face...the cold facts are the conforming and non conforming clubs list, and if I were playing for money, I'd take every club from the conforming / allowed for play clubs list that my sponsors and the rules would allow for me to play my best game...period...

[Bigvivec]

Originally Posted by GolfSavage

I'm surprised that the players' sponsors aren't making any noise about this. How does this look for Callaway that their big guy, whose biggest claim to fame is an awesome short game, can't count on their wedges, no matter what the rules are? And where have all these pre-'92 Ping wedges been hiding? Are players going on Craigslist and buying up all the pre-'92 wedges they can find? Did Ping have a warehouse in Phoenix full of old wedges kept for just such a situation? Will Phil have a new bag made that says "Callawing" or "Pingaway"?

Actually Ping does...



I read a story awhile ago about Mark Calcavecchia...he still plays a complete set of beryllium Ping eye 2s...the article said that Ping kept a stock of the clubs and wedges specially for tour players who still used them since neither the beryillium process nor newly cast eye 2s were legal anymore...what the extent of the stock is, who knows, but Calc said he got "new" clubs and wedges whenever he needed them...

[Bulls9999]

Mickelson contemplates litigation against slanderous statement he was 'cheating'.

Interesting, you have the PGA making a move towards the Australian for making tame statements about Kim during the president's cup regarding out late partying, but so far pretty quiet from PGA regarding these incendiary statements.

Phil Mickelson not taking "cheating" accusation lightly - Tours & News - Golf.com

Mickelson not taking "cheating" accusation lightly

Published: January 30, 2010







Related:

• Tour defends Phil, use of Ping wedges

SAN DIEGO (AP) — Phil Mickelson hinted at legal action Saturday for being accused of "cheating," saying that if the PGA Tour did not do something about him being "publicly slandered," then he would let others handle it.
Mickelson didn't mention Scott McCarron by name in a series of interviews after his third round at Torrey Pines.
McCarron was quoted in The San Francisco Chronicle on Friday as saying about Mickelson using the Ping-Eye 2 wedges with square grooves, "It's cheating, and I'm appalled Phil has put it in play."
The USGA has a new rule this year that irons have V-shaped grooves. However, the Ping-Eye 2 wedges that were made before April 1, 1990, remain approved for play through a Ping lawsuit that was settled 20 years ago and takes precedence over new regulations.
Mickelson is using one of those wedges this week after reading about John Daly and Dean Wilson using them in Hawaii.
When asked Friday about McCarron's quote about him cheating, Mickelson declined to get into what he referred to as "name-calling." Instead, he suggested that McCarron was upset with the new rule on grooves.
But after a 70 in the third round put Mickelson within four shots of the lead, he made it clear he would not go quietly.
"We all have our opinions on the matter, but a line was crossed and I just was publicly slandered," Mickelson said. "And because of that, I'll have to let other people handle that."
Asked he was contemplating a lawsuit, Mickelson said, "I'm not going into specifics what that meant."
Still, it was clear that his message reached PGA Tour headquarters. The tour released a statement during the third round explaining why the Ping-Eye 2 wedges with square grooves were approved for play.
"Public comments or criticisms characterizing their use as a violation ... are inappropriate at best," the statement said.
Told about the tour's statement, Mickelson paused before saying it was "cool if they put that out there."
"Again, everybody has their opinions and so forth, and it's healthy to talk about it," he said. "But when you cross that line and slander someone publicly, that's when the tour needs to step in - or someone else."
McCarron, who missed the cut at the Farmers Insurance Open, could not be reached for comment. He did not back off his criticism Friday of Mickelson using the wedges, although he used "bending the rules" instead of "cheating" in his comments.
He maintains that Mickelson, and others using the Ping wedges, are violating the spirit of the new rule.
Mickelson has been feuding with the USGA, in particular senior technical director Dick Rugge, since last summer when it became clear the new grooves would be effective this year.
He said he was not even certain that 20-year-old wedges spun the ball more than his new wedges, yet offered no apologies because the clubs are approved for play.
"I understand black and white," Mickelson said Friday. "And I think that myself or any other player is allowed to play those clubs because they're approved - end of story."
Instead, the story might just now be starting.
McCarron, who is on the 16-man Players Advisory Council, said the wedges would be discussed Tuesday at a PAC meeting in Los Angeles with PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem.


Read more: http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1957896,00.html?eref=sihp#ixzz0e9MFb9Fd

[TTUfirebird2008]

A lawsuit, really? That just makes Phil look worse because now the story will become a lot bigger than it was before. Now you'll have the media paying attention to it because of the lawsuit. What Phil is doing isn't cheating, but it is taking advantage of a loophole. Corporations do this kind of stuff all the time with tax loopholes and such. It's legal, but that doesn't mean it's ethical.

[Bulls9999]

TTU, this isn't high school or college golfers, these guys are literally Corporations...lots at stake in business ventures, etc (look what happened to Tiger on a grand scale from businesses that didn't like his personal misfortune). So if McCarron wants to impune the Mickelson 'brand', he better make sure he is correct, imo.

But I would have expected PGA to say something (as they have)....especially since they did regarding comments made about Kim during the PResident's cup.

Originally Posted by TTUfirebird2008

A lawsuit, really? That just makes Phil look worse because now the story will become a lot bigger than it was before. Now you'll have the media paying attention to it because of the lawsuit. What Phil is doing isn't cheating, but it is taking advantage of a loophole. Corporations do this kind of stuff all the time with tax loopholes and such. It's legal, but that doesn't mean it's ethical.

[Bulls9999]

Doesn't look like Finchem/PGA Tour is saying anything regarding 'spirit of the game'?

Tour defends Mickelson, use of Ping wedges
Posted at 3:55 PM by Cameron Morfit | Categories: Farmers Insurance Open , PGA Tour , Phil Mickelson
SAN DIEGO -- In light of criticism directed at world No. 2 Phil Mickelson and others using pre-1990 Ping Eye2 wedges at the Farmers Insurance Open this week, circumventing the new rule against square grooves, the PGA Tour on Saturday morning issued a statement defending Mickelson, as well as John Daly, Hunter Mahan, Brad Adamonis, Dean Wilson and any other Ping users.
The statement begins:
"Under the Rules of Golf and the 2010 Condition of Competition for Groove Specifications promulgated by the USGA, pre-1990 Ping Eye 2 irons are permitted for play and any player who uses them in PGA Tour sanctioned events taking place in jurisdictions of the USGA is not in violation of the Rules of Golf."
The second part of the statement is directed at the handful of players who have complained about the use of the old Ping wedges this week, specifically Scott McCarron, who was quoted in Friday's San Francisco Chronicle saying he considered the use of such wedges "cheating."
"Because the use of pre-1990 Ping Eye 2 irons is permitted for play," the statement says, "public comments or criticisms characterizing their use as a violation of the Rules of Golf as promulgated by the USGA are inappropriate at best.
"Commissioner [Tim] Finchem will address this issue in greater detail on Tuesday, February 2 during a regularly scheduled player meeting and with the media during the 2010 Northern Trust Open."

[TTUfirebird2008]

Originally Posted by Bulls9999

TTU, this isn't high school or college golfers, these guys are literally Corporations...lots at stake in business ventures, etc (look what happened to Tiger on a grand scale from businesses that didn't like his personal misfortune). So if McCarron wants to impune the Mickelson 'brand', he better make sure he is correct, imo.

But I would have expected PGA to say something (as they have)....especially since they did regarding comments made about Kim during the PResident's cup.

There's two ways of looking at it. In my view, most people would have simply left the situation alone after a few days. So McCarron said he thinks Mickelson is cheating. Big whoop. Why should what McCarron says have any bearing on what the rest of us think of Mickelson? I don't think Mickelson is cheating. I think he's 100% within the rules, but I do think he's being unethical. Mickelson is just drawing more attention to the situation if he takes this to court. If I were him I would have a private conversation with McCarron in which I tell him to mind his own business. The Tour has made a statement that McCarron's comments (and any others going forward) are inappropriate. Perhaps the Tour will start fining players for speaking publically on this matter. Perhaps that will deter players from behaving in the same way that McCarron did. Phil doesn't need a lawsuit to clear his name. If anything, a lawsuit just draws more attention to the situation. And his behavior is not ethical. I don't care whether he wants to live in denial about it.

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by TTUfirebird2008

A lawsuit, really? That just makes Phil look worse because now the story will become a lot bigger than it was before.

Well he was slandered. McCarron still hasn't apologized for that slander. Phil could have just punched him in the face, but why give him a payday he can't earn with his sticks.

[TTUfirebird2008]

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

Well he was slandered. McCarron still hasn't apologized for that slander. Phil could have just punched him in the face, but why give him a payday he can't earn with his sticks.

Hopefully they settle this nonsense behind closed doors because if it goes to court it will just make all 3 parties (Tour, McCarron, Mickelson) look bad. McCarron just needs to issue a statement retracting the word "cheat" because it was an improper use of the term.

I really do hope Mickelson is just trying to make a broader point about how ridiculous this loophole is. From the comments I've seen by him, it sounds like he does think it's ridiculous. With his amazing talent, why bother taking advantage of that loophole? He doesn't need it. Hopefully he's just trying to make a point here.

[Bulls9999]

But the funny thing is, I was reading McCarron was trying to get hold of Phil by texting and leaving messages to apologize...well, he went on TV to make his case about Phil being a 'cheater', why not do the same with an apology? Apologizing quietly behind the solitude of a cell text message doesn't quite get out to the public the same way his original statements did, imo.

As far as McCarron, I think if Finchem can get Robert Allenby to apologize to Anthony Kim for saying "he parties and doesn't come in until mid morning the night of the Presidents Cup match" (which I thought was nothing big enough that it would involve the commish), then I can only imagine Finchem will pounce on McCarron to do the same here.

Originally Posted by TTUfirebird2008

Hopefully they settle this nonsense behind closed doors because if it goes to court it will just make all 3 parties (Tour, McCarron, Mickelson) look bad. McCarron just needs to issue a statement retracting the word "cheat" because it was an improper use of the term.

I really do hope Mickelson is just trying to make a broader point about how ridiculous this loophole is. From the comments I've seen by him, it sounds like he does think it's ridiculous. With his amazing talent, why bother taking advantage of that loophole? He doesn't need it. Hopefully he's just trying to make a point here.

[TTUfirebird2008]

Originally Posted by Bulls9999

As far as McCarron, I think if Finchem can get Robert Allenby to apologize to Anthony Kim for saying "he parties and doesn't come in until mid morning the night of the Presidents Cup match" (which I thought was nothing big enough that it would involve the commish), then I can only imagine Finchem will pounce on McCarron to do the same here.

You know what would be a really big mess for the Commish? If it was Tiger instead of McCarron saying it.

[tcswede]

Seems that McCarren has a lot to say for the time being - watching the Qatar Open here and it was reported that McCarren lashed out at Kenny Perry for choosing to play on the Euro Tour instead of suporting the PGA Tour.

Missing the cut at Torrey Pines one could surmiss that McCarran should focus more on his game and less on his opinions....

Cheers

Thomas

[Wazmankg]

Originally Posted by tcswede

Seems that McCarren has a lot to say for the time being - watching the Qatar Open here and it was reported that McCarren lashed out at Kenny Perry for choosing to play on the Euro Tour instead of suporting the PGA Tour.

Missing the cut at Torrey Pines one could surmiss that McCarran should focus more on his game and less on his opinions....

Cheers

Thomas

Thanks for that Thomas. I know very little of McCarron's personality. He had some significant success years ago, mostly disappeared and has made a marginal comeback of sorts in recent years. Sounds like loud-mouthed thoughtlessness is his MO.

Originally Posted by TTUfirebird2008

Hopefully he's just trying to make a point here.

It sounds like that's exactly what he's trying to do, from the statements I've heard from him. It's a mess the PGA Tour has made and he wants Finchem to clean it up, toot sweet. Nobody cares if JD or Dean Wilson uses the loophole, but when Phil does... very loudly I might add, people will listen. That's my take anyway.

Originally Posted by Bulls9999

But the funny thing is, I was reading McCarron was trying to get hold of Phil by texting and leaving messages to apologize...well, he went on TV to make his case about Phil being a 'cheater', why not do the same with an apology? Apologizing quietly behind the solitude of a cell text message doesn't quite get out to the public the same way his original statements did, imo.

Exactly. He had the chance to retract or apologize for the "cheater" comment in an interview the very next day and did neither. He stepped in it in a very public way. He should clean up after himself the same way. That's what someone with any integrity would do imo.