Retief Goosen: "Tiger Was Faking"

[Bigvivec]

The only issue I had with Rocco wearing red was that I had to do a double take to see who was playing...


As far as questioning someone's honesty and integrity...the man isn't a God (though he golfs like one), Goosen stuck his foot in his mouth sure enough, but it was a lighthearted throwaway comment...the fact that he was beaten by a guy with a ruined knee and a semi broken leg is enough to elicit a little lighthearted commentary if ill advised...all this stuff about losing respect and such for the Goose is way overblown...a little sour grapes, a little envy, really just a little of the dark side of human nature came through the Goose's mouth unchecked and while it was dumb to say in light of his current crucification, like CK said, it's not like alot of us weren't thinking that to some degree...


Even if it had been fake, who cares? Alot less distracting that Rocco yapping and twiching all over the place...I thought I was going to need a Xanax just watching that guy...how a jumpy, nervous kinda guy like that plays good golf is a mystery to me...

[CristieKerr]

Originally Posted by mr3856a

With Tiger Woods it is - you're questioning the man's honesty and integrity.

*twirls finger in the air* But if someone made the same comments about Phil when he wrecked his wrist, Tiger Nation would've said it's possible.

Originally Posted by mr3856a

I don't know which one of you two is talking yourself into a corner faster.

At least our corners have doorways. Get off it, he's a darn great golfer and nothing more. Everything else that is made about him being the greatest individual that we've ever seen is derived from his golfing ability. If he was the same guy off the course, with the same foundation, with the same wife, same father, some mother, same everything, but just your average Joe on the golf course, we would never hear about how upstanding, wonderful, and perfect this man is. He's just a golfer, a darn good one, probably the best ever, but that's all. He's no more honest than Phil, he has no more integrity than Goose, and he is no better husband than DD; he's just pretty freaking great at golf.

[mr3856a]

Originally Posted by CristieKerr

*twirls finger in the air* But if someone made the same comments about Phil when he wrecked his wrist, Tiger Nation would've said it's possible.

At least our corners have doorways. Get off it, he's a darn great golfer and nothing more. Everything else that is made about him being the greatest individual that we've ever seen is derived from his golfing ability. If he was the same guy off the course, with the same foundation, with the same wife, same father, some mother, same everything, but just your average Joe on the golf course, we would never hear about how upstanding, wonderful, and perfect this man is. He's just a golfer, a darn good one, probably the best ever, but that's all.

My, I seem to have struck a chord. It's quite obvious that you have an emotional soft spot in this area. He is more than a darn great golfer (Tiger Woods Learning Center). What I find funny is people who have to exaggerate and make abstract assumptions with no basis in fact to defend what they've said when they get called on saying something ridiculous.

You called Tiger a liar, so did Retief. Stand up for it or don't say it. Retief has already backed off what he said, I guess your tactic is the illogical attack. This "Phil this, Tiger fan that" bologna has nothing to do with the issue at hand, nor did I imply that he puts his pants on different than anyone else. What is true, however, and which you seem to take issue with, is that professionally (and personally for all I've ever heard), the man is beyond reproach - or perhaps you know of some moments of dishonesty in his past you can share with us...? What on earth would make you assume he has to fake a limp? For what? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

If you have any basis in fact for making an assumption that he was lying to us in some way, please let me know, otherwise I'll take this for what it is, envy and/or jealousy.

[JungleJ]

Originally Posted by mr3856a

My, I seem to have struck a chord. It's quite obvious that you have an emotional soft spot in this area. He is more than a darn great golfer (Tiger Woods Learning Center). What I find funny is people who have to exaggerate and make abstract assumptions with no basis in fact to defend what they've said when they get called on saying something ridiculous.

You called Tiger a liar, so did Retief. Stand up for it or don't say it. Retief has already backed off what he said, I guess your tactic is the illogical attack. This "Phil this, Tiger fan that" bologna has nothing to do with the issue at hand, nor did I imply that he puts his pants on different than anyone else. What is true, however, and which you seem to take issue with, is that professionally (and personally for all I've ever heard), the man is beyond reproach - or perhaps you know of some moments of dishonesty in his past you can share with us...? What on earth would make you assume he has to fake a limp? For what? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

If you have any basis in fact for making an assumption that he was lying to us in some way, please let me know, otherwise I'll take this for what it is, envy and/or jealousy.

HAS CK called Tiger a liar? I think you're streeeeetching a bit to get to that.

To summarise what CK has said - he doesn't think it inconceivable that someone might think Tiger was laying it on thick. As we've seen over the weekend, some here on GRW wondered about it. He thinks Retief Goosen was a little loose-lipped in vocalising that suggestion, but that Tiger Nation is maybe overboard in "losing all respect" for the Goose.

Did you know that Tiger, yes Tiger Woods the Circumspect, upset a lot of people with his off-the-cuff comments deemed derogatory towards hockey?

I think you need to back off on CK at least.

As for what Tiger might (conceivably) gain by embellishing his pain, who knows what goes on in the heart of man?

[CristieKerr]

Originally Posted by mr3856a

My, I seem to have struck a chord. It's quite obvious that you have an emotional soft spot in this area. He is more than a darn great golfer (Tiger Woods Learning Center). What I find funny is people who have to exaggerate and make abstract assumptions with no basis in fact to defend what they've said when they get called on saying something ridiculous.

Do you know how many golfers have foundations? Even Tiger Nation's whipping boy has a foundation, but no one rolls around saying Rory is full of integrity and is such a stand up human being. Don't like the Rory example? Justin Leonard has a scholarship fund and has been helping students for 10 years. What about the David Toms foundation?

Yeah, Eldrick has a nice big foundation that everyone likes to point out, but if he was just an average Joe out there on the course, we wouldn't be hearing about how full of integrity, class, and honesty he is. Much like the others mentioned, because they don't hit a golf ball better than anyone else in the world. The idea that Tiger is the most respectable and upstanding human being one could aspire to stems from his golfing ability, not from the TWF.

Originally Posted by mr3856a

You called Tiger a liar, so did Retief. Stand up for it or don't say it. Retief has already backed off what he said, I guess your tactic is the illogical attack. This "Phil this, Tiger fan that" bologna has nothing to do with the issue at hand, nor did I imply that he puts his pants on different than anyone else. What is true, however, and which you seem to take issue with, is that professionally (and personally for all I've ever heard), the man is beyond reproach - or perhaps you know of some moments of dishonesty in his past you can share with us...? What on earth would make you assume he has to fake a limp? For what? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

So we can't indirectly call Tiger a liar but it's cool to indirectly call someone stupid? The only reason you call the Phil v Tiger analogy "bologna" is because you know it's true. He's just a darn good golfer. He's not a better human being that Cindy in Accounting or Rob in construction who have a family and donate money to charity.

Why would he fake his wincing pain? Like I've said umpteen times, I have no idea. But, he declared himself ready to go. He took longer than the expected recovery time. And when he drained that putt on the 72nd, he certainly didn't look like his knee was causing him any problems in the extravagant celebration. He winced on some shots, on others of the same type he looked fine. Connecting those dots is as easy as 1, 2, 3.

Originally Posted by mr3856a

If you have any basis in fact for making an assumption that he was lying to us in some way, please let me know, otherwise I'll take this for what it is, envy and/or jealousy.

The last person in the world I envy is Tiger. Would it be nice to have his golfing ability? Sure. Does he have an attractive wife? Yeap. Would it be nice to never worry about money? Of course. Do I think his life is any better than my own? No chance in heck. Not even close. Envy Tiger? That'd be an insult to myself.

I don't envy him, I'm not jealous of him, I just like watching him golf. And if Accounting was super exciting sport, he'd love watching me bang out a bank rec.

[CristieKerr]

Originally Posted by JungleJ

To summarise what CK has said - he doesn't think it inconceivable that someone might think Tiger was laying it on thick. As we've seen over the weekend, some here on GRW wondered about it. He thinks Retief Goosen was a little loose-lipped in vocalising that suggestion, but that Tiger Nation is maybe overboard in "losing all respect" for the Goose.

...

As for what Tiger might (conceivably) gain by embellishing his pain, who knows what goes on in the heart of man?

Exactly.

[Bigvivec]

Foundation=tax shelter=fantastic way to use money that would otherwise disappear into the Federal void...

Are you calling Tiger a liar!?!?!? HAHAHAAHAHAHA


Too funny...

[Ty_Webb]

For the record, I'm quite a big Tiger fan. I also wondered if he was really in as much pain as he appeared to be. Given that he'd said so many times that his healing was going well and he'd be ready for the US Open, his reactions seemed to tell a different story. There were two possible explanations for this. One is that he wasn't actually hurting and he was putting it on. Two is that he was hurting and had been keeping the extent of his injury from the world at large.

I think all Retief was doing is expressing this. I think, given the information available, what Retief said is fine, even if it has been "expanded on" by the press. I also think if anyone is going on about how he was faking it now, given the information we now have, is a pretty low individual. That said, I don't think anyone here has done anything or said anything along those lines.

[mr3856a]

Originally Posted by JungleJ

HAS CK called Tiger a liar? I think you're streeeeetching a bit to get to that.

Originally Posted by CristieKerr

Like I said, I don't know why he would, but it more than crossed my mind

[that Tiger was faking or embellishing it.]

That sounds like "I think he was lying" to me.

[CristieKerr]

Originally Posted by mr3856a

[that Tiger was faking or embellishing it.]

That sounds like "I think he was lying" to me.

So anyone who said: "He's not alright" or "He really looks hurt" was also calling him a liar? Because he told us he was fine and good to go.

[mr3856a]

Originally Posted by CristieKerr

Do you know how many golfers have foundations? Even Tiger Nation's whipping boy has a foundation, but no one rolls around saying Rory is full of integrity and is such a stand up human being. Don't like the Rory example? Justin Leonard has a scholarship fund and has been helping students for 10 years. What about the David Toms foundation?

Yeah, Eldrick has a nice big foundation that everyone likes to point out, but if he was just an average Joe out there on the course, we wouldn't be hearing about how full of integrity, class, and honesty he is. Much like the others mentioned, because they don't hit a golf ball better than anyone else in the world. The idea that Tiger is the most respectable and upstanding human being one could aspire to stems from his golfing ability, not from the TWF.

See, here we get back to your logical fallacies. Tiger has a nice big foundation, but you said he was nothing more than a good golfer. Problem number 1. Problem number 2 - who said anything about Justin Leonard or David Toms? You're bringing in things outside the realm of what we're discussing to get away from what you said. Would you like to talk about another sport now, perhaps the animal kingdom and what Professor Jones does to protect the brown horned toad?

We're talking about Tiger Woods, and Retief's (and your) implication that he was lying about his injury. "Faking it" is lying.

So, now that we're back to the subject at hand, if you can share with us evidence that Tiger lacks integrity, honesty and class, I'm all ears.

*crickets chirping*

Originally Posted by CristieKerr

So we can't indirectly call Tiger a liar but it's cool to indirectly call someone stupid?

I guess we can add this to the long line of things attributed to me that I never said. I said it was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard, not that you were stupid. Smart people can say stupid things.

[mr3856a]

Originally Posted by Bigvivec

Foundation=tax shelter=fantastic way to use money that would otherwise disappear into the Federal void...

My aren't we jaded...

[mr3856a]

Originally Posted by CristieKerr

So anyone who said: "He's not alright" or "He really looks hurt" was also calling him a liar? Because he told us he was fine and good to go.

Don't be disingenuous, please - it's beneath you.

[Bigvivec]

Originally Posted by mr3856a

My aren't we jaded...

Maybe...but it's hard to understand your view without having my nike tiger tinted glasses...


BTW, Toms, Steve Williams and Leonard were inserted into the argument to prove that it isn't extraordinary to chair a chairty as a professional golfer...admirable yes, but commonplace...

You argue some good points but then ruin it by overreaching...now make me understand why Tiger ought to be offended, or myself for that matter, by a little sour grapes off the cuff...

[CristieKerr]

Originally Posted by mr3856a

See, here we get back to your logical fallacies. Tiger has a nice big foundation, but you said he was nothing more than a good golfer. Problem number 1. Problem number 2 - who said anything about Justin Leonard or David Toms? You're bringing in things outside the realm of what we're discussing to get away from what you said. Would you like to talk about another sport now, perhaps the animal kingdom and what Professor Jones does to protect the brown horned toad?

The only problem with logic is, you can't seem to follow it. All the things everyone says about Tiger being a great upstanding individual that anyone should strive to be like, comes from his golfing ability.

The reasons we bring up JL, or David Toms, or Rory, or anyone and everyone who happens to have a foundation is, that we don't hear about those do we? No one rolls around telling us how we should strive to be like JL. Or that we shouldn't question David Toms' integrity or honesty. Tiger is just like a million other individuals in everything but golf. He has a foundation? Big deal, so do a lot of Tour pros, so do a lot of average Joe's. You've probably donated a portion of your earnings to charity, you just don't swing a golf club like Eldrick. Everything that we hear beyond his golf game is directly derived from the fact he's great at it, nothing more, nothing less. If he had the abilities of Jason Gore, we wouldn't hear jack all about TWF and no one would be shaming us for thinking he is embellishing an injury.

Originally Posted by mr3856a

We're talking about Tiger Woods, and Retief's (and your) implication that he was lying about his injury. "Faking it" is lying.

No it's not. And even if it is? Who cares? Honest people fake injury and a lot of people who have had injuries limp even when they don't know they are. They wince because they have been for a month.

Originally Posted by mr3856a

So, now that we're back to the subject at hand, if you can share with us evidence that Tiger lacks integrity, honesty and class, I'm all ears.

Well, he told us he was fine, fully recovered, no problems, just may be rusty because he hasn't played. Turned out he isn't fine, he is hurt, he has a knee injury and another injury he said he didn't have. That certainly wasn't the truth now was it?

Originally Posted by mr3856a

I guess we can add this to the long line of things attributed to me that I never said. I said it was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard, not that you were stupid. Smart people can say stupid things.

You called me stupid as much as I called Tiger a liar.

Originally Posted by mr3856a

Don't be disingenuous, please - it's beneath you.

If the truth is disingenuous, then bury me beneath myself. He told us he was fine, anyone who questioned that was calling him a liar as much as I, Retief, or anyone who was saying he was embellishing his injuries was.

[Leaguegolf]

Did I miss something here or, once the tournament started, didn't Tiger actually tell us all during his post round media conferences that he was no longer fine and that his knee hurt? He came into the week telling us that he was fine but the more he played the worse he seemed to get. He was pretty much up front with that, to the point of saying that he had taken something during the round to ease the pain. He didn't elaborate on the details but I know I heard him say he was hurt and the it wasn't getting better. That didn't sound like lying to me.

[CristieKerr]

Originally Posted by Leaguegolf

That didn't sound like lying to me.

And neither does someone thinking he was embellishing. What's bad for The Goose in this case doesn't seem to be bad for the gander.

[PA PLAYA]

Originally Posted by Leaguegolf

Did I miss something here or, once the tournament started, didn't Tiger actually tell us all during his post round media conferences that he was no longer fine and that his knee hurt? He came into the week telling us that he was fine but the more he played the worse he seemed to get. He was pretty much up front with that, to the point of saying that he had taken something during the round to ease the pain. He didn't elaborate on the details but I know I heard him say he was hurt and the it wasn't getting better. That didn't sound like lying to me.

I think that's the underlying point. Going into th