Michelle Wie 24/7

[Texas Wedge]

Originally Posted by rodney_c

This is a simple example of rules for the sake of rules. Whether she signed it in the tent or strolled a few yards before signing it, should make no difference.

Originally Posted by Wazmankg

Exactly... only in golf.

You guys are so right. Why should we have ANY rules in golf? Especially women's golf. Why should a woman be forced to follow the same rules that apply to men and male professional golfers? And one should NEVER subject an 18 year old to the same rules you apply to a 20-something or older golfer. Pah! Ridiculous. We all know these fools who created this game didn't have rules...they just all played however they wanted and told stories about it later. It was the evil LPGA that came up with these nonsensical rules about having to sign your scorecard in order to compete. We should be mad at them!

I can't believe this is so hard to understand. Rules are rules. Everyone has to play by the same rules or there are consequences. For example, many people on here have words they think shouldn't be censored, but the words are censored because there are RULES about language. Toss out a word on the list and it gets changed. You think it's crazy to censor that word? Too bad. It's in the RULES. Live with it or move on. This is not a new rule or one they never enforce but did with Ms. Wie. This rules has been around for a very long time and been enforced in the same manner many a time. This time it just happened to have happened to the "annointed one."

[Diane]

Originally Posted by Texas Wedge

Why should a woman be forced to follow the same rules that apply to men

My sentiments exactly.

[Texas Wedge]

Originally Posted by Diane

My sentiments exactly.

Oh come on...you know women NEVER play by the same rules as men...except in golf.

[rodney_c]

Originally Posted by Texas Wedge

I can't believe this is so hard to understand. Rules are rules. Everyone has to play by the same rules or there are consequences.

Rules should be about stopping people from gaining unfair advantages.
Rules should not be about technicalities which have nothing to do with the actual playing of the game.

[Texas Wedge]

Originally Posted by rodney_c

Rules should be about stopping people from gaining unfair advantages.
Rules should not be about technicalities which have nothing to do with the actual playing of the game.

So if there were a rule about proper attire must be worn by competitors on tour, that should be thrown out, too? No rules should be enforced, or even in place, unless it has the sole purpose of stopping a person from gaining an unfair advantage?

We should have a rule that all players must play with the same ball, because NOT having that rule gives some players an advantage of playing a better ball, right? And of course, the same clubs...etc. But now we're creating MORE rules to make things fair.

[Texas Wedge]

Originally Posted by rodney_c

Rules should be about stopping people from gaining unfair advantages.
Rules should not be about technicalities which have nothing to do with the actual playing of the game.

Rodney,

I do see your point and I have sympathy for Ms. Wie, but she made a mistake and paid a high price for it. Hopefully, it won't happen to her again...or at least not for a very long time. But I don't see the RULING as unfair...just the timing of it. I feel it should have been handled sooner, but I don't know all the true details as to how it played out.

If you remember, earlier this year on the PGA tour, a player was in the middle of his round and was told he'd been DQ'd for something that happened in the middle of his round the previous day (Allenby, I think). He'd raked a fairway bunker after his shot because he stood in it and his ball wasn't in the bunker but ended up in a greenside bunker...I don't remember the exact details. My point is, that he was DQ'd a day later in the middle of a round. If I recall correctly, he even initiated the discussion about it by calling over a rules official after finding out about the rule from his playing partner. Did he gain an unfair advantage? No. Was it a technicality? Yes. Was he DQ'd? Yes. Did he make a big stink about it? No. He even called the officials over to discuss it himself. Sometimes rules are not very friendly to the players, but it happens...even rules that are foolish technicalities.

[JPsuff]

Originally Posted by Texas Wedge

No rules should be enforced, or even in place, unless it has the sole purpose of stopping a person from gaining an unfair advantage?

Precisely.

If a person does something that affects others or creates either an unfair advantage for themselves or a disadvantage for others, then there should be a rule in place which addresses those issues. But whether someone signs a scorecard in a tent, or twenty yards from the tent, is of no consequence to anyone and is thus a: STUPID RULE!.

You know, rules CAN be changed and in many cases have been. Take the Constitution of this country, for example. It began as a simple concept, but then various amendments were added to either clarify or specify particular situations, ideals or other concepts and that practice continues to this day.
So if the rules for the governance of a nation can be modified or amended, then modifying a rule about where one signs a scorecard for a game should be child's play.


-JP

[Leaguegolf]

Originally Posted by JPsuff

So when the volunteer told her that she didn't sign her card, which was right after her round on Friday, why wasn't she asked about it or asked to "tell her side of the story" until after she teed off on Saturday? Does the volunteer operate in a vacuum? Does she not turn in the cards to someone? Could she not have told someone at "Rules Headquarters" that Michelle had not signed her card within the designated area?
The opportunity to have Michelle tell her side of the story existed from when this happened all the way up until her tee time on Saturday, so why did they wait until after she teed off to make an issue out of this?

I have no problem with rules, but in this case, Michelle simply forgot to do something that she's done automatically for years and the mistake was apparently corrected shortly after it occurred. No one was put at any disadvantage, no one lost their place in the standings and the scorecard she did sign was correct. Yet no one saw fit to address any of this until well into the next day and then when they finally got around to it, they DQ'd her.

Come on, will ya'? How does an organization like the LPGA not find the time to address this situation in a more timely manner than that?


Michelle got hosed, plain and simple. And if the LPGA or any other golf organization doesn't wish to have this happen again because someone - some human being innocently or absentmindedly forgot to do something completely irrelevant to anyone but him or herself, then make it a rule that no one can leave the scorer's tent until the scorer tells them they can.

But no, that would be too simple.

Again, you continue to put the blame on everyone but Wie. The rule seems very simple to me.....Sign your scorecard and don't leave the scoring area before doing so. Wie failed to follow this simple scoring procedure and got herself DQ'd. Its as simple as that.

I disagree that "no one was put at any disadvantage." The entire field would've been at a disadvantage if Wie were allowed to continue playing after her disqualifying offense was confirmed. I do agree that the timing of her DQ was poorly handled but the LPGA got the end result right. Change the scoring rules, change the procedure, or even go as far as taking scoring completely out of the player's hands and make the tournament committee responsible for every scorecard. I don't care how its done or who does it. The only thing you have to keep in mind here is that Wie did not follow the current rules and procedures and she has no one to blame but herself.

[Texas Wedge]

Originally Posted by Leaguegolf

Again, you continue to put the blame on everyone but Wie. The rule seems very simple to me.....Sign your scorecard and don't leave the scoring area before doing so. Wie failed to follow this simnple scoring procedure and got herself DQ'd. Its as simple as that.

I disagree that "no one was put at any disadvantage." The entire field would've been at a disadvantage if Wie were allowed to continue playing after her disqualifying offense was confirmed. I do agree that the timing of her DQ was poorly handled but the LPGA got the end result right. Change the scoring rules, change the procedure, or even go as far as taking scoring completely out of the player's hands and make the tournament committee responsible for every scorecard. I don't care how its done or who does it. The only thing you have to keep in mind here is that Wie did not follow the current rules and procedures and she has no one to blame but herself.

Ahhhh...a voice of reason and logic. I like it!!

[JPsuff]

Originally Posted by Texas Wedge

Ahhhh...a voice of reason and logic. I like it!!

Reason?

Hardly.

Maybe the voice of convention and conformity, but certainly not "reason" because any reasonable person can see the abject absurdity of this "rule", which amounts to little more than her being penalized because she didn't say "Simon Says".

And as far as the field's reaction to her "disqualifying offense" I hardly think that anyone would lay awake at night worrying about it.


-JP

[Leaguegolf]

Originally Posted by JPsuff

Reason?

Hardly.

Maybe the voice of convention and conformity, but certainly not "reason" because any reasonable person can see the abject absurdity of this "rule", which amounts to little more than her being penalized because she didn't say "Simon Says".

And as far as the field's reaction to her "disqualifying offense" I hardly think that anyone would lay awake at night worrying about it.

"Convention and Conformity," where would golf be without them?

You just don't get it. Every sport is "Simon Says" because the players have to obey Simon or they don't get to play. Sometimes Simon gives players a tough task (for example: know what is and what isn't a balk in baseball) and sometimes Simon gives the players an easy task.........like Sign your scorecard before leaving the scoring area.

Wie got DQ'd because she didn't follow the simplest of Simon's commands. Too bad for her but great for the rest of the players of your little Simon Says game because they were smart enough to move on to the tough stuff. Like where to take a proper drop and what can be removed from a bunker. .....

Maybe if Wie stayed awake at night studying the rules a bit more carefully she would avoid foolish and costly mistakes like this one.

[Wazmankg]

There are 3 issues that are being confused here. The first 2 apply to this specific situation.

1) Michelle broke the rule by crossing the magic line before signing her card. She was DQ'd and did not at any time suggest she was being treated unfairly BTW. So far, so good. That was Michelle's bad.

2) The tournament/LPGA officials "discovered" some 18 hours after the fact that this transgression took place ? This is bovine . They know the exact time line and precise chain of communication that prompted this "discovery". MW fighting for the lead on Saturday = ratings. If that was not the motivation for their tardiness then they need to provide a better explanation of this chain of events than they've put forth so far. That was the LPGA's bad.

3) This one is a more global observation. It's a monumentally stupid rule regardless of who falls victim to it. The boundaries of the scorinmg tent... white demarcation lines... sheesh. It's just another manifestation of the anal mentality that pervades golf's ruling bodies. Here's my new rule to cover this situation. Whomever doesn't sign their card before they close up shop today, doesn't tee off tomorrow.

[HackBlack]

Originally Posted by JPsuff

So when the volunteer told her that she didn't sign her card, which was right after her round on Friday, why wasn't she asked about it or asked to "tell her side of the story" until after she teed off on Saturday? Does the volunteer operate in a vacuum? Does she not turn in the cards to someone? Could she not have told someone at "Rules Headquarters" that Michelle had not signed her card within the designated area?
The opportunity to have Michelle tell her side of the story existed from when this happened all the way up until her tee time on Saturday, so why did they wait until after she teed off to make an issue out of this?

I have no problem with rules, but in this case, Michelle simply forgot to do something that she's done automatically for years and the mistake was apparently corrected shortly after it occurred. No one was put at any disadvantage, no one lost their place in the standings and the scorecard she did sign was correct. Yet no one saw fit to address any of this until well into the next day and then when they finally got around to it, they DQ'd her.

Come on, will ya'? How does an organization like the LPGA not find the time to address this situation in a more timely manner than that?

Michelle got hosed, plain and simple. And if the LPGA or any other golf organization doesn't wish to have this happen again because someone - some human being innocently or absentmindedly forgot to do something completely irrelevant to anyone but him or herself, then make it a rule that no one can leave the scorer's tent until the scorer tells them they can.

But no, that would be too simple.


-JP

JP,
Have you ever attended a Professional Golfing event?
Have you ever been a Volunteer for a professional golfing event?

Volunteers are not experts on the Rules of Golf. They are people who enjoy the game, and want to spend a week on the golf course while the event is played. Most of the volunteer for a couple of days and get course access all week.

Some volunteers work the same event every years. Those with the most experience tend to to the more important jobs, as well as supervisings small groups of volunteers.

The people in charge of the scoring tent are not volunteers. They are LPGA officials. They have volunteers assisting them. In this case, it is my understanding that the volunteer who confronted Wie about the unsigned scorecard was a "Runner". I don't Runners are you most experienced, most knowledgable volunteers. He/She RAN the card to Wie. Asked her to sign it. Then he/she RAN back to turn in the card. NOW, I would question that the person in charge of the scoring tent, who is not a volunteer, had to have know that the volunteer went out to get Wie's signature. I would like the think the Scoring Tent boss would be familiar with Rule 6.6 as well as additional details related to LPGA requirements.

As far as the actual tournament golf, Wie did not get hosed. She broke the rules. She was DQ'ed. Welcome to tournament golf.

IMO, she did get hosed regarding the LPGA's handling of the entire situation related to how/when it was presented to the media/public.

[HackBlack]

Originally Posted by JPsuff

...
Maybe the voice of convention and conformity, but certainly not "reason" because any reasonable person can see the abject absurdity of this "rule", which amounts to little more than her being penalized because she didn't say "Simon Says".
...-JP

Originally Posted by JPsuff

....And if the LPGA or any other golf organization doesn't wish to have this happen again because someone - some human being innocently or absentmindedly forgot to do something completely irrelevant to anyone but him or herself, then make it a rule that no one can leave the scorer's tent until the scorer tells them they can.
But no, that would be too simple.-JP

Isn't your proposed change, "Simon Sez you can leave"?

[C-Tech]

My only observation about the rule itself is that a rule is a rule, period! If you are going 31 in a 30MPH zone, you are breaking the rule and if you get a ticket for it, you cannot legally defend yourself by saying that you were just a little over... It is a fixed point...on one side you are legal and on the other side you are not. That is as simple as it gets.

Whether or not the tour should change the rules to make that fixed point at some other place or not is not going to change the fact that it is just that, a fixed point. They could say you must sign the scorecard before leaving the green on 18, or they could say you must sign it before anyone is awarded a trophy on Sunday afternoon, someone is going to step over that fixed point and be penalized sometime.

[JPsuff]

.


I could understand all of this hoopla if she refused to sign her card, or had someone else sign her card or if she turned in an incorrect card. But to be disqualified from an event because she signed her card ten, twenty or how ever many yards or feet she was from the "OFFICIAL CARD SIGNING AREA" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. And no amount of pontificating, or rationalization can make it seem any less ridiculous than it is.

It is a Stupid Rule and that's that.

I'll even go as far as to say that if you insist that she be penalized in some way for her heinous transgression which will no doubt scar humanity for decades to come, make it a two-stroke penalty or make her wear an "I Love Annika" button. But DQ-ing her is a bit harsh, don't you think?

Just like Tiger enlisting the services of twelve spectators to move an 800 pound boulder because he "cleverly" realized it was a "loose" impediment. Now, in the case of THAT particular bit of foolishness, I think the rules regarding loose impediments should be amended to read that the player AND ONLY THE PLAYER may remove a loose impediment and only under his or her power with no mechanical assistance.

So if ol' Tiger wanted to risk a double hernia, then go for it. If not, he chips out from behind it. But in any case, it takes the absurdity out of the picture.


Just because something is "A RULE" (imagine clouds parting, a shaft of light and the attendant angelic choral accompaniment here), doesn't mean it makes any sense or that it doesn't need to be changed.

Just ask Stuart Cink.


-JP

[HackBlack]

Originally Posted by JPsuff

.
I could understand all of this hoopla if she refused to sign her card, or had someone else sign her card or if she turned in an incorrect card. But to be disqualified from an event because she signed her card ten, twenty or how ever many yards or feet she was from the "OFFICIAL CARD SIGNING AREA" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. And no amount of pontificating, or ratio