Make-able chip: stick in or out?

[JimSomebody]

Here's what Dave Pelz says:

Leave the flagstick in whenever the Rules allow, unless it is leaning so far toward you that the ball can't fit.

From: GOLFONLINE - THE BEST OF PELZ

I always leave the flagstick in, but a lot of good players take the stick out. Do you have a general practice, or do you do different things under different circumstances?

[coralpro]

I pretty much lave them in on anything other than a putt from of the green and will use it if the putt is a downhiller.

[Fourputt]

If I'm chipping, I leave it in. If it's a putt from off the green, then it depends on the circumstances.

[xnavyct]

I leave it in. Matter of fact, on my 30 yard-ish chip I put in for a birdie last weekend, my partner Mr. 17 Clubs didn't see it from the other side of the bunker where he was planning his shot, but he heard it hit the flagstick, then came over and saw the ball in the hole.

[Leaguegolf]

The flagstick will never hurt a good shot and will often help a poor one.

[bonknhead]

I too, leave the flagstick in, unless it's so windy that the flagstick is moving around.

[Wazmankg]

Pulling it would make about as much sense for me as waiting for the green to clear from 300 yards out. I'd just feel foolish. If I'm fortunate enough to chip it at the hole, the odds that the ball would actually be moving at the proper pace are astronomical.

[Ty_Webb]

I would leave it in. I guess because I think it's more likely to help than hurt.

Pelz when he does his analysis looks at the pure mechanics of whether a ball is more likely to drop with the flag in or not. There's a psychological effect as well that he just misses. If I'm chipping really, really well, then I'd pull the flag, because with the flag in, it feels to me like the hole already has something in it, so the ball is less likely to drop. I start aiming near the hole, rather than in it. I think this mindset is far more likely to result in a miss, than the marginal impact of the flag helping or preventing the ball from going in the hole.

[jwaldrop]

I leave the flagstick in for chips most of the time...I MIGHT take it out for a fairly short uphill chip, but I usually assume it's going to be moving a little faster than a putt would and hope that stick will help more often than hurt.

[Bulls9999]

I make a fair number of 'chip-ins' from off the green...perhaps 1 per 2-3 rounds.... and I never remove the flag (heck, I never expect them to go in, just chipping to get close to the hole, such a low percentage on that, but they do drop).

Originally Posted by JimSomebody

Here's what Dave Pelz says:

From: GOLFONLINE - THE BEST OF PELZ

I always leave the flagstick in, but a lot of good players take the stick out. Do you have a general practice, or do you do different things under different circumstances?

[Texas Wedge]

I usually leave it in. I will sometimes take it out for a putt from the fringe, but other than that I find it best to leave it in.

[JimSomebody]

Interesting that the strong consensus among this thread's posters (so far) is to leave the stick in. I play with a lot of guys, including single-digit handicaps, who ask that the flagstick be taken out as they're preparing to chip. It makes for a brief mini-drama ("he's goin' for it!"), and I've even heard them say that the stick will keep the ball out. Or if they neglected to remove the stick and their chip hits the stick and bounces away, they remark, "That would have gone in if the stick hadn't been there." I've never quite bought that.

If I'm lining up a make-able chip, carefully reading the green, a playing partner will correctly assume I'm trying to make it and to be helpful will ask, "Shall I take out the stick?" I say no. I sometimes refer to Pelz's study, but it sounds pedantic, plus which a guy who's in the process of shooting 90 doesn't always have a lot of credibility. So I usually make a little joke about needing it as a backstop.

[GolfSavage]

When they ask if I want the stick out, I might say,"Yes, please lay it down behind the hole!"

I've found that the few times I've hit the stick hard enough to make it bounce clear of the hole, the ball was moving too fast to have dropped if the stick was out anyway. When I do sink a chip, the stick usually has no bearing on whether it goes in or not.

Another thing to think about that parallels this - how often do you see a pro (or anyone) ask for the stick to be taken out for their greenside bunker shot? If having the stick out was going to make it easier to sink a shot, wouldn't it make sense to pull it when hitting from the bunker (assuming you have the confidence and skills to make a bunker shot)?

[300Yards]

If it's a chip from just off of the green, I will most likely remove the stick. But if it's a chip from the fairway, rough, or I am hitting a bunker shot, the stick stays in.

There are exceptions though. I've seen sticks that lean towards the cup side facing me. I've had sticks like that interfer with chips in the past, so now if I'm facing a chip that I could make, then I will remove sticks that do that.

[GolfSavage]

Originally Posted by 300Yards

If it's a chip from just off of the green, I will most likely remove the stick. But if it's a chip from the fairway, rough, or I am hitting a bunker shot, the stick stays in.

There are exceptions though. I've seen sticks that lean towards the cup side facing me. I've had sticks like that interfer with chips in the past, so now if I'm facing a chip that I could make, then I will remove sticks that do that.

Those leaning sticks really make me ! About 2 months ago I had about 150 yards to the pin on a long par 4, and hit a beautiful 8 iron shot right at the hole. It landed about 5 feet from the hole, hopped twice, hit the stick and bounced back 3 inches from the hole! When we got to the green you could see the stick was leaning toward the front of the hole, with no room for a ball on that side of the cup! No doubt that ball would have gone in if the stick was straight. The lean was caused by too much dirt/sand in the center hole of the cup. I was robbed!

[Darth Fader]

I usually leave it in,just in case the ball is needing a little helping hand.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by 300Yards

If it's a chip from just off of the green, I will most likely remove the stick. But if it's a chip from the fairway, rough, or I am hitting a bunker shot, the stick stays in.

There are exceptions though. I've seen sticks that lean towards the cup side facing me. I've had sticks like that interfer with chips in the past, so now if I'm facing a chip that I could make, then I will remove sticks that do that.

Like League said up above... A good shot will not be impeded by the flagstick, and a poor shot might be helped. Just makes good sense to leave it in when you can.

Granted that a poorly fitted flagstick that leans toward me is the only time I'll take it out on a chip.

[alangbaker]

I think the most important part of the decision is which option is going to give you the most confidence.

If pulling the stick will give you a strong feeling that you have a good chance to hole out, then pull it. If leaving the stick in will give you the feeling that you have a backstop that might stop a downhiller from rolling too far by, then leave it in.

Like a lot of things in golf, the most important part of the game is what's going on between your ears.


Alan

Originally Posted by JimSomebody

Here's what Dave Pelz says:

From: GOLFONLINE - THE BEST OF PELZ

I always leave the flagstick in, but a lot of good players take the stick out. Do you have a general practice, or do you do different things under different circumstances?

[Martini78]

I am in the minority on this one. If it's a short chip shot that I think I can make, I yank it. I've had balls take crazy riccochets of the pole before, it would seem the ball would have just dropped into the center of the cup if the flag had been pulled. I don't skull chips any more, so I don't need to flag there to stop a hot one.

[Bigvivec]

Originally Posted by alangbaker

I think the most important part of the decision is which option is going to give you the most confidence.

If pulling the stick will give you a strong feeling that you have a good chance to hole out, then pull it. If leaving the stick in will give you the feeling that you have a backstop that might stop a downhiller from rolling too far by, then leave it in.

Like a lot of things in golf, the most important part of the game is what's going on between your ears.


Alan

This is it for me...pulling the stick means that I am going for it and will create a bit of pressure where there was none...same as pulling a 3 wood in lieu of the driver on a day when your driving is up and down...the instant you second guess your driver and go 3 wood you better leave that driver in the bag for the rest of the day because now you are thinking about it...

[Golfaddict]

Chipping is the best part of my game. If the chip looks makeable I'm pulling it.

[300Yards]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Like League said up above... A good shot will not be impeded by the flagstick, and a poor shot might be helped. Just makes good sense to leave it in when you can.

Granted that a poorly fitted flagstick that leans toward me is the only time I'll take it out on a chip.[/

That's what I used to think- until my perfect chip that rolled 10 feet across the green at 3 miles per hour, hit the leaning flagstick, and got rejected by an inch. That ball was right in the heart too. It turned out, that a wad of.. something.. got stuck in the hole that the stick sits in, and held the pin firmly forward. No ball could've made that pin move enough to let the ball fall.